In this liberating episode, Shae Bynes, Chief Fire Igniter of The Good Faith Group LLC, shares how to replace grind with grace for sustainable success and true freedom. If you struggle with burnout and the hidden costs of ambition, you won’t want to miss it.
You will discover:
– What grace-empowered leadership creates flourishing cultures
– How to receive grace as a gift already available to you
– Why grace, not hustle, is the fuel for lasting results
Episode Transcript
Scott Ritzheimer
Hello, hello and welcome. Welcome once again to the start, scale and succeed podcast. It’s the only podcast that grows with you through all seven stages of your journey. As a founder, I’m your host, as always, Scott Ritzheimer, and we know that every founder goes through this disillusioned leader stage. You’ve heard me talk about it over and over, and we have many guests come on and and help us understand what to do about it. But today, I want to address the question, Why? Why is it that we all fall into this disillusioned leader stage, and then what can we do based on that? And what I found is the one of the biggest reasons why is because they fall for the lie that enough success will finally set you free. And we spent years believing that you think that if you reach this milestone, hire this employee, achieve this objective, that somehow you’ll cross the finish line and it’ll be okay. And every time we do, there’s a moment of success and excitement, and we’ve done it, and then there’s this deeper and deeper valley we seem to walk into each time. And there’s got to be something that changes. And if it doesn’t, we don’t know how long it can last. It’s why disillusioned leaders are always left asking the question, is this it? Is this really as good as it gets? Well, no, this is not as good as it gets. And you’ll find out in just about two seconds of hearing my guest today that that is not anywhere near as close as good as it gets, because she is affectionately known as the Chief Fire igniter. My guest today is Shae Bynes. She’s a catalyst for grace, who, I’m sorry, a catalyst for grace, who equips leaders to create cultures where both people and results flourish. She’s a pioneer in the kingdom business movement, and she has impacted over 1 million people globally through her books, courses, podcasts and speaking, helping leaders embrace a grace empowered way of life and leadership. With over 25 years of experience, including leadership at a fortune 50 company and over a decade as a founder and business owner herself, Shay brings strategic clarity and transformational insight to her advisory work with both entrepreneurs and executives alike. She’s also written a phenomenal new book called Grace over grind, and we’re going to unpack what that means for those of you who are in Stage Four today, it’s going to be a real treat. Shae so excited to have you back, one of our very, very few repeat guests. It’s fantastic having you back. Yeah, and I’ve been looking to this conversation for a while after we reconnected recently, but let’s, let’s dive in here. So in your book, Grace over grind, you talk about how grinding and hustling will earn you this badge of honor, especially in this world of entrepreneurs that we both come from. But it’s not the best thing. It’s an inferior substitute for something that’s so much more. What is that thing and why do we always sell ourselves short?
Shae Bynes
Yeah, that thing is grace. And when I define grace, I define that as a divine enablement. Now I believe from God, as far as the divine enablement is concerned, but what it allows you to do is it allows you to operate with more peace, instead of all the chaos and all the anxiety. Allows you to operate with deeper wisdom, so that you can actually have clarity around what you’re moving forward with. It allows you to have, I call it, sustainable rhythms in terms of how we flow and how we operate, because a lot of times we’ll put success in this little bubble thing, but we want holistic success and the harmony of our lives and our work, and it also helps us to have greater collaboration with others, because a lot of times we get stuck in these isolated moments and putting too much, too much of a burden on ourselves when it really doesn’t belong to just us, it belongs to a group of people working in collaboration and trust together. And so I believe that what’s, what’s behind that, like that force that makes it that much better is grace.
Scott Ritzheimer
That’s awesome. So what’s the relationship then, with grace and things like ambition or hustle or because the reality of it is a lot of folks listening might be like, if I didn’t hustle, I wouldn’t be here. And so how do those work together? Is there a time and place for the grind? Walk us through some of the nuance there.
Shae Bynes
Okay, so I actually do not have nuance when it comes to grind, and I’ll tell you why. Because I think that there is, there is a better word for it, and that word is diligence. So if you’re working diligently, diligently, that means you are being consistent, you’re showing up, you’re you’re energetic in your work. But it doesn’t mean that you’re you’re in this grind, which is like excessive hard work. So I don’t believe there’s any need for excessive hard work. I believe that people operate that way, but that they’re operating well underneath what is the best and so. So I don’t think there’s a place for it, but there’s absolutely a place for diligence. I believe that we’re called to work with diligence and the work that we do, but we don’t have to sacrifice, you know, everything in the process of our diligence. We can. Actually do that, and then when we add that divine enablement on top of it, we experience way more than we could have done on our own.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, so this idea of more peace has been something I keep bumping into. And when I hear you say it, it doesn’t sound like most people when they say it, which is like this kind of squishy, like, nice, okayness. And so as Chief Fire igniter, what is the What’s that kind of action? Is there an action forward piece? What does that look like?
Shae Bynes
That’s right. So I think that’s a great question, because the interesting thing about peace, Scott, is that peace is what you’ll have despite even not having all the information and all the answers that you really would love to have. And so one of the things that I find is a lot of people that actions that they don’t take is they’re not willing to actually sit and listen to actually seek clarity, to actually instead of just instantly reacting to things and trying to figure out, how can I make all the things happen to actually take time sit quietly with a question, I believe, sit before God with a question, you know, and then see what type of wisdom comes forward. And sometimes that wisdom might be a conversation you might need to have with someone. Sometimes that wisdom is an idea that comes forth. Sometimes it’s just the space to actually be able to think, as opposed to operating in so much anxiety. And when you do that, when you’re like listening deeply for clarity and taking a step forward, then you can move. You might have some, you know, hesitations around it, because you’re not 100% sure, but you’re also not filled with anxiety around it.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, it’s interesting, because anxiety can be, especially in type A folks such a powerful motivator. And to some extent, like when you first get into this, I know, for me, whenever I first started changing, it’s like, you’re, you’re switching fuels, yeah, and it’s like, This feels weird, you know, like this, this feels wrong. There’s something not right about it. How do you how do you help folks think rightly about that transitional period where you’re going from just like the chaos of crazy, anxiety driven effort to something much more sustainable?
Shae Bynes
Quite often, Scott I actually have to really encourage people to try it. So for somebody, because it depends on where they are, there’s some people who have already hit up. People who have already hit a place of, I don’t desire to be anxious all the time. I don’t desire to feel like I’m on the edge of burnout. I don’t desire to have like, no harming going on in my life. So that person, when they come to the table, they’re like, I’m already ready for a solution. Let me try this thing called grace, and let me see what this looks like. For other people who aren’t quite there yet. The ones who are just like, but I really, kind of like, I really, kind of like this, some of them, quite honestly, aren’t ready to take that next step. And the ones who are, it really is just kind of like, hey, let’s experiment with something. I actually have a client right now that I’m having to walk that out with who actually takes great joy in seeing her calendar back to back to back. I’m not kidding, from 730 in the morning till like 830 at night, back to back to back to back to back, with like a 15 minute, 30 minute break. And actually looks at that and it’s just like, this is such a blessing. My calendar is full, and so it’s like, wait, wait, there’s something way better available to you. You can’t keep operating at this pace. And you’re thinking, that’s a blessing, but it’s not. And you’re thinking it’s not, you can’t even have a successful business without operating like that. But that’s not true, and so for someone like that, I’m saying, hey, let’s just experiment and try something different this week, literally, as we’re having this conversation this week, she’s trying for the first time that she blocked off one hour Scott from her calendar on three different days, one hour that she’s like, I will not take any work, no meetings, no clients, nothing for this hour, because I’m going to give myself the space to actually breathe, to sit, to think, maybe to eat. But I mean, it’s this is real life for a lot of business owners.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, as someone who scored 98% on an introversion, extroversion scale, I started sweating just hearing about that calendar. But right here, here’s, here’s what I think really tricky about this, and it’s right at the heart of stage four, but it matters to a whole lot of folks, even outside of this entrepreneurial world, and that is the best I can put is like, what’s your measuring stick? Right? Because, like, we are in Stage Four in particular, we are achieving goals. It’s not that we’re not having success, it’s that we’re finding out that that success isn’t actually what we’re longing for, and we don’t know what is. So how do you help folks, especially in this kind of grace enabled, Grace empowered model, how? How do you help folks to get the right measuring stick for their success?
Shae Bynes
Yeah, it’s interesting how a lot of people haven’t even taken the time to dream about what is possible, like I like to ask. Ask people, What if you’re thinking about your ideal, how you’d like to operate, with your business, with your kids, with your spouse, like all of those things. What would that look like? Just a typical, ideal kind of week? A lot of people didn’t have answers to that. But then when they actually take the time to sit with it, to dream about it, to think about what would I like this to look like, and what would I like what would I like it to look like, maybe if I took a week off every quarter? Or what would it look like? Just whatever, whatever it would be. You know, right now, I’m working with a lot of leaders where I’m also saying I want you to look at this not just from your own perspective, but also for your team. What do you want your company, the whole culture to look like, even with your team as you’re growing, and how to operate in this as a leader? And I find that a lot of people don’t take the time to dream, so I like to take some time to have people that actually begin to envision what’s possible. And for some people, that is very tough. For them, it’s like, I’m like, you have permission to do that. Let’s do that. As opposed to, on the other side of things, looking at, oh, all of this is not, not what I wanted at all, and then having to start back, you know, at the you know, start back from beginning. Sometimes we also don’t know exactly what we want, and so we start to realize what we don’t want. I do realize that some people’s personality types are like, I need to experience some of what I don’t want so I know what I want, and that’s cool too, but you don’t want to go all sometimes it’s kind of like people are going fast and furious, and they go so far off the beaten path, Scott that then it takes so much to untangle, to go backwards. You don’t have to go that fast, that far before you take those those moments to pause and reflect in the dream.
Scott Ritzheimer
I think that’s a big part of it, because we’re invariably going to set some of the wrong goals. Yes, like that’s just gonna happen over time. It might be because we didn’t know what we didn’t know. Many times, for the folks that I’m working with, they don’t even know they’ve done it, but they’ve borrowed someone else’s goals, right? And and oftentimes, when I’m teaching founders and their teams goal setting processes, I’ll tell them this all the time. It’s not actually about setting the right goals. It’s about having the right process, right? Yes, it’s actually more about the feedback loop in between those cycles. And one of the challenges, especially for founders, is we set these really big, really aspirational goals that take a long time to achieve, yep, then we just assume they’re like gospel truth, right? We don’t even question it. And so we go years and years and years pursuing what ultimately turns out to be someone else’s goal. Yes, so how do we, how do we start to put some, some some sort of feedback loop into that process? What does Grace show us about how to, how to behave in pursuit of those goals?
Shae Bynes
Yes, I think it’s so funny you were saying that about goals, because when I talk about goals, I talk a lot about the difference between outcome and process goals, and how most effective usually, are the process goals. What are the what are it’s like you have these outcomes that you, by the way, don’t have any control over, but like you might have some of those, but how? What? What are the things that you do have input into that? Then it’s like you’re taking steps, steps, and you can evaluate on a monthly on a quarterly, take a look at that. So I think that one of the things that’s helpful is, at least for me, I’m looking at things on a weekly and on a quarterly basis before I ever hit a year. So there’s plenty of opportunity to pivot, to learn something, to make a shift and not feel like those things that I said in January are set in stone that I have to like now. I’ve got to idolize that goal that I put forth and just go hard after that goal. It allows me to kind of take in input pivot, and because I’m talking about that divine enablement, actually getting divine insight as I go and as I learn as well, to be able to make those shifts where I need to make those shifts.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, it’s interesting how quickly our minds will jump back in and try and take over. And someone listening might be like, okay, Grace, got it. I’m gonna go do these things. Once I have those things, then I’ll have room for grace. What’s the difference of working by grace as opposed to for it?
Shae Bynes
Yeah, it’s like, it’s, where do where do you start? Are you starting with it and from it? That’s the ideal, not the Hey, let me go after it, after I figured it all out, because that is actually operating counter to what I’m talking about. So if you want divine enablement, then you’re actually going to partner with the divine in it, right? And so it starts there. A lot of people are working for rest. I’ll hustle, hustle, hustle, you know, work, our work. And then I’ll rest and figure some things out when, if you actually have a rhythm of creating margin, so that you can restore, so that you can think, so that you can dream, so that you can pivot, you can do those things on a regular basis. Then, then you don’t have to go so far along along the path. It’s like you’re starting with it, and you’re operating in it, just part of your flow, in terms of how you operate, as opposed to the thing that you’re going after. Like, that’s a reward. After I do all of these things on my own,
Scott Ritzheimer
It’s so good, so good grace is not a reward. It’s it’s the actual. Will feel to get you there. So yeah, I love that question. For you, I’ve asked you this question in the past, but I’m going to ask you again. So especially in the context of where you’re at right now and how you’re seeing folks changing their lives with this message, what would you say is the biggest secret you wish wasn’t a secret at all? What’s that one thing you wish everybody watching or listening today knew?
Shae Bynes
I wish that everyone knew that grace was a gift that is already available to them, not one that they have to hustle hard to earn, not one that they’ve got to go and figure all the things out so that they can do it is actually a gift already available to you. All you have to do is receive it, begin to walk it out in your work and, quite honestly, in your personal life as well.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, so good, so good. So folks might be sitting saying, okay, yeah, like, maybe I need to try it and and so some next steps here. Let’s make this actionable for folks. Where can folks find a copy of your book? Or, even better, where can they start to find that next step for them?
Shae Bynes
Yeah, absolutely. So I’m going to make two different kind of book recommendations. So the one that you mentioned was Grace Over Grind. I wrote that one some years ago, but it’s fantastic. It’s a really great starting point in terms of learning how to operate kind of step by step, how to operationalize this idea that I’m talking about that is, for those listening, that is a overtly faith based Bible, scripture, all in it. Book. I also have a book called Grace Under Pressure, which is a story about leadership and the hidden cost of ambition. That is totally more of a story here. So it’s more of an allegorical story. So so it’s like taking the concepts from Grace Underground, and then it’s presenting them in a story with a little nonfiction, a little bit in the back, and then in both of those books, I have tools that you can download to help you really to walk it out on a day to day basis.
Scott Ritzheimer
Excellent, fantastic. We’ll get links to both of those in the show notes so you don’t have to go searching for them. Shay, thanks for being on really a privilege and honor having you back with us here today. Love, love the book. Love the content that you have here, and yeah, appreciate you being here for those of you watching and listening, you know that your time and attention mean the world to us. I hope you got as much out of this conversation as I know I did, and I cannot wait to see you next time. Take care.
Contact Shae Bynes
Affectionately known as the “Chief Fire Igniter,” Shae Bynes is a catalyst for grace who equips leaders to create cultures where both people and results flourish. A pioneer in the Kingdom business movement, she has impacted over one million people globally through her books, courses, podcasts, and speaking, helping leaders embrace a grace-empowered way of life and leadership. With 25 years of experience, including leadership at a Fortune 50 company and over a decade as a founder and business owner, Shae brings strategic clarity and transformational insight to her advisory work with both entrepreneurs and executives.
Want to learn more about Shae Bynes’s work at The Good Faith Group LLC? Check out her website at https://shaebynes.com/
You can grab a copy of her book, Grace Under Pressure: A Story About Leadership and the Hidden Cost of Ambition, at https://www.amazon.com/Grace-Under-Pressure-Leadership-Ambition/dp/0999676369 and her other book, Grace Over Grind: How Grace Will Take Your Business Where Grinding Can’t, at https://www.amazon.com/Grace-Over-Grind-Business-Grinding/dp/B078X1HTC4/