In this powerful episode, Schuyler Williamson shares how you can lead steadily through chaos using proven models. If you’re struggling with overwhelm, or if you feel chaos derails your leadership, you won’t want to miss it.
You will discover:
– What clear vision communication does to align your growing team
– Why steady leadership ensures clarity in chaotic growth stages (and how he learned it from a direct hit by an IED)
– How to use combat readiness to lead yourself amidst uncertainty
Episode Transcript
Scott Ritzheimer
Hello, hello and welcome. Welcome once again to the secrets of the high demand coach podcast. And here with us today is the one and only, Schuyler Williamson, who’s a leadership expert, entrepreneur and decorated military veteran who has consistently achieved the highest business and service levels as author of the steady leader leadership models that bring clarity to chaos. Schuyler provides actionable strategies for leading through uncertainty, drawing from his experience as a Bronze Star Medal recipient and combat officer with deployments to both Iraq and Afghanistan, he’s also a top West Point and McCombs MBA graduate. Schuyler ranks in the top 1% of real estate agents nationwide, with hundreds of millions in sales and ownership of over 55 investment properties. And he’s here with us today. So if there’s anyone, I just have to set this up. If there’s anyone listening who thinks there’s anything soft about the conversation you’re about to hear about being a steady leader or all that entails, you’re in for a real treat. So Schuyler, I’m wondering if we could first off, welcome to the show. But I’m wondering if we could just put that myth to bed right out of the gate, because you opened your book with a very compelling and powerful story that really led you to this kind of journey of being a steady leader. Could you tell us a little bit about that experience, what happened and how it got you to where you are today.
Schuyler Williamson
Yeah, thanks, Scott. Well, I’m grateful to be here and for the listeners and and look, I’m just grateful to be an American, first and foremost. Yeah. So I was in Baghdad, Iraq, and, you know, I was an officer leading an infantry platoon in an area of Baghdad that was controlled by al Qaeda. Yeah. In fact, al Qaeda was very public about it that this would be the last place that they would lose in Baghdad if they were going to be driven out. And so it was. It was a very difficult area. There was lots of contact. And you know, al Qaeda is weapon of choice at the time, was the improvised explosive device, or the IED, and we were on a normal patrol. It was a security patrol, so we were just in the streets making sure that, essentially, the local populace could live their lives without the influence of the terrorists. And my sister platoon, just about, you know, five miles away was attacked, and the attack was successful. So they had casualties, multiple vehicles disabled. The soldiers were fighting. And, you know, I wish I could say that that was rare, but, you know, every day we kind of had these encounters. I mean, most of the time you’re fighting your own fights, but in this scenario, when a friendly force is pinned down and needs support, you really don’t wait for someone to tell you to move. You know, you move, and that’s what that’s what the US soldiers do. And so we, I gave the command for our unit to move that way. And, you know, as a leader, maybe our first kind of topic here is you have a choice, and both choices can take you to the completing the vision. And one choice might be the faster way, but there’s more risk, right? So the return is getting there faster and but there, you know, there’s more risk of getting hurt along the way. And then there’s the safer way, where, you know, you’ll get there, but it’ll just take longer. Well, lives were at stake. I took the route that was the fastest one there, knowing that there was a lot of risk in doing that. You know the enemy would have it that they detonated a very accurate and very effective IED on my platoon as we were moving to go support them. Now we were blessed in a way that they didn’t follow up that attack with more like the other sister platoon. They were still under attack at the moment, but the bomb that they blew up on us was very effective, and it hit my truck direct. It hit the the door of my personal vehicle. And I just, you know, just to share a little bit of the ingredients here, I I remember kind of coming to my truck was full of dust, which means that shrapnel was actually able to get into the vehicle right? Because those those vehicles were pretty airtight with the the armor that we’d put in there at the time. So shrapnel got into the vehicle. It was full of dust. I had. I had two guys behind me screaming. My gunner in the turret was completely knocked out, and my driver was actually conscious. I could see blood coming from his ears because he didn’t have earplugs in and, and he was trying to crank the vehicle. The vehicle had stalled. And when I realized what was going on, you know, I had the ringing and the fog of war at the moment, but when I realized what was going on, you know, everybody was yelling over the radio and, and I. Pause the story right there in the book. And yeah, we were we were extraordinary as a unit. My team was very they were trained very well. I had great leadership. I had great soldiers, smart, capable, athletic soldiers, and we were lethal. But it doesn’t matter how good you are, chaos is going to find you, and chaos found me dead on with that, with the impact of that bomb. And my main point is, is that just because it’s a chaotic moment, or just because you’re hurt now, I fractured my shin, and that just because you’re hurt doesn’t mean that you don’t get the lead right. It’s assess the situation, put together a plan, and then make a make a command and move out. And so I, you know, I, what I tried to do in this book was kind of take people through the process that I lead myself through, so that even when it’s the most chaotic time, you could still be a steady leader, because you still got to lead it just just because it’s chaotic doesn’t mean you have to. You can just kind of hit at my house, we call it T but like, timeout, right? You don’t get to call time out, none. You got to keep making great decisions.
Scott Ritzheimer
Such a phenomenal story and really highlights, in a dramatic sense, the value of being a steady leader and the cost to that, right? It doesn’t come easy, doesn’t come cheap, but it has the bigger the risk, right? The bigger the challenge, the greater the chaos, the bigger the reward. And there’s a bit of a leap over the beginning of the book that doesn’t seem obvious at first, but is the obvious answer. And we move from like this, this high drama, high impact, to this discussion of models, right? And the book in general is kind of built on this idea that models are really the way forward. So it’s one of those things that can mean a lot of things to a lot of people. Someone just what is a model and and, more specifically, what is the relationship of model to innovation?
Schuyler Williamson
Yeah, yeah. Well, I, I think about it kind of starts back at the definition of leadership, you know. And I subscribe to two, you know, mega leaders out there, and their definitions. One is John Maxwell, and he says it simply, leadership is influence. And then, you know, Gary Keller writes in his book that leadership is teaching people how to think so that they can get what they want, and then you get what you want because of that. And so if you’re if you’re boiling leadership down to being influential in thinking and thinking well and teaching people how to think, then you’re gonna, you’re gonna come back to this concept of models. The second thing is just, I believe that the solution to chaos is clarity, which comes back again to thinking. And so Tony Robbins said it well, that, you know, you should stand on the shoulders of giants. And I think, he got it from someone else, but, you know, again, he deploys models, right when he teaches. And so when you stand on the shoulders of giants to accomplish what you’re trying to accomplish, really, what he’s saying is start with something that you already know is successful, yeah, and then innovate on top of that based on what makes you unique, right? Your unique abilities, your products, Unique Selling aspects, or your services, unique value proposition. But start with you know what works, and then go from there. And models are a much more solid foundation to build on top of than innovation. Innovations unproven. It’s risky. You know, you don’t have a lot of data. You don’t know if it’s gonna so if you start to build a company on top of innovation, that’s a that’s a real risky kind of foundation, right? So I just assume, start with something that you know works, and then innovate on top of that. And so this idea of a model mindset as a leader, everywhere I go, I’m thinking, what’s the model here? Like, I go to the grocery store, and I’m like, man, not only how did they get me in this grocery store, but look at all these people in here. How do they get them in here? I know they have an advertising model. I know they have a marketing model. Like, what is their model? And I start to think about and then I go, Oh, well, can I apply that to my business? You know? And I’m just doing that all everywhere I go now.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, I love that. I love that mindset, principles, a similar, similar approach. There are patterns that are playing out over and over again. So I want to walk through because there’s three kind of big parts of this book that you’ve put together, leading yourself, leading your team and leading your company. And interestingly, they kind of align with this journey that founders face of working by themself, leading themselves, working with a small team, leading their team, and ultimately growing a successful company. And so I kind of want to walk through these both in terms of kind of leveling up your leadership and building onto. Of the foundations and models you have early on, and then also what that looks like over time. So we’ll start at the beginning. Early on, founders are often wearing every hat. They probably have very big dreams, but if they’re honest, they’re barely keeping it together. So what’s, what’s one of the models from the the leading yourself that can help them to do that, to lead themselves and study the ship when everything else feels like it’s like moving all over the place and they’re wondering, What have I gotten myself into? Yeah,
Schuyler Williamson
Yeah. Well, the model that I like the most is what we used to call combat ready in the military. And combat ready means, when given a mission, you’re ready to step off immediately. So you’re trained, you’re equipped, you’re motivated, you know you’re ready to go now, applying that to yourself, leading yourself, the way that I think about is, Are you healthy, right? Are you healthy to the max potential so that you can go be the best leader you can be for your team every single day. And I like to break it down into three components. Are you mentally healthy? Are you physically healthy? Are you in? Are you spiritually healthy? And I think of it like a four legged stool with mental and physical being one leg each, and then spiritual being two legs and so on. The on the mental piece. I’m not talking about it in like the clinical sense of it, to me, mental health is you have a growth mindset, right? That you’re hungry to be more today than you were yesterday, and that not all of you hungry, but you feed yourself. You know you’re actively looking to plus yourself up. And so it takes a little bit of humility, but it certainly takes motivation, and you’re positive too, right? You’re growing the physical health that’s literal your body. Is your body capable? And I love the way that the stoics write about this, right? When you wake up in the morning, does your body tell you, Oh, you’re tired, get you another 10 minutes of sleep, or don’t work out today you’re sore, or, Hey, you’re tired today. So you can go take it halfway at work. You don’t have to give 100% or are you physically healthy in that you tell your body, get up, it’s time to work out. It’s time to exercise, go to work. And not only are you going to work for eight hours, but this is a day where you got to double down a little bit so you’re gonna stay a little bit longer. I mean, are you, is your body an asset, or is it a liability? In for you as a leader? And then the last one would just be spiritual in, you know, in the whole game of endurance, right? And you need endurance as an entrepreneur to get from I do it to we do it spiritual, health really can give you the most endurance and and I’ll just give you a good measure of spiritual health. When you wake up in the morning, do you think about what you’re going to get, or do you think about what you’re going to give to the world? To the extent that you wake up and are excited about giving to the world. That’s how health, that you’re more healthy spiritually. And so the second that you learn that this life isn’t about you, it’s about you know all God’s children, that that’s when you’re starting down the journey of spiritual health. And leader. Leaders can’t be influenced by the world. Leaders have to be able to make great decisions outside of the world’s influence. And again, that’s all spiritual health there.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, it’s so true. You talk about the distinction I do it versus we do it. And I think there’s this interesting, subtle difference early on, when it’s just you, or maybe a couple people around you, where, especially because of Jim Collins and Peter Drucker and so many folks, there’s this idea every company needs to have values, right? And I love values. I think they’re awesome, but I think there’s a subtle difference early on between your values and company values. And I think we oftentimes, like, we try to play a big company game, to look like we’re a big company, right, or to pretend we’re a big company, and we actually lose the advantage that we have of they are your values. Like, let them be your values. Don’t try and separate those two. So in that pursuit of values, would you? Would you agree? Would you say that those personal values do matter? And if so, how do you start to unpack that?
Schuyler Williamson
Oh, man, I I love the conversation of values. You know, for me and for our crew around here, when we talk about company culture, we say culture is nothing but just the accumulation of values and beliefs. That’s what it is. And so you’re right, when it’s I do it, well, I am the company. My values are the company values, but the second that I hire someone who has different values, then the values come together, and the ones that are stronger actually become the company’s values. You don’t go out and create values with. With an aspirational sense, like you don’t create values. You come with values. They are who you are. And so if you want a culture that looks and acts a certain way, and you need to recruit people with those values, they already have them, because you’re not going to bring someone along and just create values inside of them that you know, you’re not their maker. And so I, I think that, you know it starts. It starts with having an idea of what you want your company to act like, what you want the culture to be. And then during the hiring practice, making sure that you’re you’re looking for that, and you have questions that bring that to you. And then, and then you’re going to be gold. Now, I’ll just say one more time. I think everybody knows why values are important, but just my definition of values are, they drive the way that you operate when no one’s looking right. That’s the way I look at it. So values are so important, so that I can be here with you today and we can have this conversation. I know my team is operating in the background, and I’m not around to answer questions or pay attention to them, but because I know what their values are, I know why they’re, you know, they know the vision of the company, they know the plan, and they have the values that are in drive behavior while I’m not around. You know, managing them, I’m not a great manager, all right, I don’t, I don’t care for it. It doesn’t, doesn’t excite me, and it doesn’t excite my team when they’re being managed. So I want great value, so that they just run on their own. It’s unbelievable when you have a great set of values in place.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, so good. And it brings me directly to my next question here, because what happens when when you have success in that early stage is thrust you into the next one, and now you’ve got a team running around you. Everyone’s running 100 miles an hour, you’re exhausted, maybe they’re exhausted, and it can feel really, really hard when you don’t feel like you’re a great manager. It’s not how you’re naturally wired. It can feel hard to keep all those plates spinning, and can really lead to a pretty significant resentment of your team if you’re not careful. So what have you found to be effective in in leading a team like that and allowing you to balance your job while still studying the team that’s looking to win as well?
Schuyler Williamson
Yeah, well, I’ll just say we’re real quick to violate one of the things that’s most basic in the infantry in the army, which we call it in the military, the span of control. So every fire team is three people and a team leader. And so we don’t expect that team leader to do anything other than manage those three soldiers ever. It’s never more than three. And that’s so that that soldier can be a leader and a soldier, right? Any more men under his control, he wouldn’t be able to be a soldier too. He would just be a leader, and that’s it. And so I think the first thing is just knowing, based on what you have to do as a producer in your business, how many people you actually can lead, and it still be okay, right? So don’t violate that span of control, which is three to five people. Now, I believe when people are frustrated as a leader of a team more times than not, it comes down to likely the leader is not communicating well, but they’re just in general. On the team, there’s poor communication, because nothing can frustrate humans faster than poor communication, especially when you’re trying to accomplish something big. And so I would just as a leader, I’d go back and say, Okay, well, am I clear on my vision, not only the vision of what I want my team to do in the future, but do I am I clear on my vision for each player on the team? Right? So if we’re just thinking about football, my vision for what that quarterback looks like is going to be very different than that left tackle, right, right? They’re both on offense. They’re both trying to score a touchdown, but the vision for each position is different. And so as a leader, you can’t just have one blanket vision and assign it to everybody. You got to have many visions for each player on the team. And and I would just say, like, Am I clear and am I communicating that to the team often enough so that they know where we’re going? Because if Shame on them if they’re getting frustrated on going where we’re moving and not bringing up, hey, there’s big issues with this. You know, they need to voice that now. They’re going out and trying to do a great job, and they do it way out in left field, and you’re frustrated as a leader, like, why are you working so hard going out in left field, and they want to be patted on the back because they just gave it all this effort. Look how far I’ve gotten us. Well, man, they don’t We don’t know where we’re going, and so yeah, we’re going to be frustrated. The Vision’s not clear. So I usually come back to communication and specifically vision, because if you got great people on your team, and they’ve got a clear vision, even without a plan, sometimes they’ll still get you there, it’ll be a mess on the way. Lord, but they know where they’re going, so they’ll get you there. That’s what a players do.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, it’s so, so true, especially at the team level. So I want to fast forward again. We’re a little further down the road. Your small team has become a bigger team. It’s not just you leading everybody. It’s you leading leaders and who might. Even be leading leaders themselves. And one of the things that was most surprising and disheartening to me when I was going through this as an entrepreneur myself, was I found that businesses get bigger. They don’t actually get better. You know, just inherently. It’s just, there’s more chaos, there’s more complexity. Like you said, chaos finds you, and in your book, you talk and you’ve mentioned it earlier, this idea of combat readiness, what does that look like at the company level? Like, how do you use something like that to study an entire company, not just your team?
Schuyler Williamson
Yeah. I mean, you know, the for better, or for worse, the lifeblood of them of a company, is money in the bank, right? I mean, I it’ll it allows you to take advantage of opportunities. It also allows you to withstand an attack from a competitor, or, you know, if you lose a key person, you know, it allows you to kind of take a step back and be able to work through that and go hire another key player there. But I think one of the most basic things that we can do as a leader of a company is just manage the financial aspect of the company well, and you have a responsibility to do that as a leader. Now, you may be big enough that you can afford someone that vets their expertise, and that’s your partner in the business to help you do that, but as a leader, you don’t get to just hand that part of the business off completely. No. I mean, you know, and again, I’m a small business owner, so I work off a cash flow statement. So I need to understand what a cash flow statement is, and I understand why it matters for my business. I need to understand what my expenses are, so that, if I had to operate with no revenue, like we did in COVID, you know, how long can I survive, and what’s, what’s the next couple of steps that I’m going to do if something like that were to happen. But, yeah, I mean, we look at things like cash or cash on hand, you know, what’s, what’s are in our economic model. How profitable are we on a per sale basis? And then, and then I look at my people, right? Because usually business gets complicated because of the people, not not because you wake up and you can’t sell your your service anymore. You can’t sell your product. I mean that more times than not, that’s not the problem. The problem is the people or poor decisions financially. But let’s assume that you’ve done really well financially, and you make great decisions Well, now we come back to people. And for people, you know, I’m always organizing the org chart of today and the org chart of tomorrow. I always know the succession of my people. If someone were to leave, what am I going to do? You know, who’s going to step in there? You know, I’ve contingency plan that way. I know who my rising stars are that, you know, no matter what, they’re going to get more of my time than anyone else, right? And I’m going to feed them opportunity. If they want to build something brand new, I’m going to give them a shot, and then I’m building the bench too. People that I know want to be a part of our company, but we’re not ready for them yet. But like, you know, they’re on the bench, and I’m nurturing them as well. I mean, those two pieces. I can’t tell you enough. I mean, they sold 90% of the problem. You know that he’s paying attention to your financial situation and the paying attention to your people leading the company, if you’re doing those well, more times than not, the rest kind of falls into place.
Scott Ritzheimer
So good. So true. Scott. I’ve got one more question for you here, and then we’ll make sure folks know how they can how they can get a copy of the book and learn more about the work that you do. But before we get there, what would you say is the biggest secret that you wish wasn’t a secret at all? What’s that one thing you wish everybody watching or listening today knew?
Schuyler Williamson
That no matter who you think, no matter who you think you are or what you you know how controlled you are, that your decisions are always being influenced. And so to the extent that you can be aware of that, I think that in a chaotic moment, if you can slow things down and be in a position where you can respond and not react, I think your chances of making a great decision just go through the roof, and then the step kind of next to that is paying attention to what you put in front of you. And so by that, I mean, what are the books that you’re reading, what are the shows that you’re listening to, the people on your team that you spend the most time with? You know, your your partner, or your spouse at home, you know, like, what’s their mindset? Who your friends, who they are. You’re if you’re in a moment where you don’t have a lot of time and you actually have to react, all of those inputs are going to drive your reaction, how you how you react things I’m saying, do everything you can to respond, to put yourself in a position where you can actually leverage one of your models and bring clarity and then respond. But you know, there’ll be moments where you don’t have time and you have to make a quick decision. Well, all of that time. That you’ve been put doing your due diligence and making sure who you’re hanging out with, the books you’re putting in front of you, the things you’re listening to, like this podcast, like those things all matter in that moment more than than ever. And so your your your influence. Every decision that you you make, every decision that you make, is being influenced. So you know you need to you need to pay attention to the to what’s influencing you and just control that.
Scott Ritzheimer
So good, so good. Where can folks get a copy of the book and learn more about what you do?
Schuyler Williamson
Yeah, well, you can always go to thesteadyleader.com, it’s just the title of the book. You could buy it there or interact with all of the things that we have on that website. You can also go to Schuylerwilliamson.com you can see all the businesses that we have there and what we’re doing. Got some free resources there and follow me on LinkedIn. I read every morning, and my accountability for my reading every morning is that I post my journal post from that reading session. And so if you’re not a big book reader, you just want the cliff notes. You can follow me on LinkedIn and just get my click notes every morning.
Scott Ritzheimer
I love it. That’s awesome. All right. Well, Schuyler, thanks for being on the show. Love the book. Highly recommend it for anyone listening. Really is fantastic. Some really epic stories along the way as well. And yeah, so thanks for being on today. Just a privilege and honor having you here, and for those of you watching and listening, you know your time and attention mean the world to us, I hope you got as much out of this conversation as I know I did, and I cannot wait to see you next time. Take care you.
Contact Schuyler Williamson
Schuyler Williamson is a leadership expert, entrepreneur, and decorated military veteran who has consistently achieved the highest business and service levels. As the author of The Steady Leader: Leadership Models That Bring Clarity to Chaos, Schuyler provides actionable strategies for leading through uncertainty, drawing from his experience as a Bronze Star Medal recipient and combat officer with deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. A top West Point and McCombs MBA graduate, Schuyler ranks in the top 1 percent of real estate agents nationwide, with hundreds of millions in sales and ownership of over fifty-five investment properties.
Want to learn more about Schuyler Williamson’s work at Williamson Group Real Estate? Check out his website at https://www.thesteadyleader.com/ or https://www.schuylerwilliamson.com/
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