In this transformative episode, Ritavan shares how you can reignite growth by leveraging your data-driven edge with the SLASOG framework. If you’re struggling with stagnant growth despite past success, or if you feel left behind by tech-driven competitors, you won’t want to miss it.
You will discover:
– What scarcity mindset shift unlocks new growth in a data-driven world
– Why your legacy business gives you an unfair edge to outshine tech competitors
– How to stop spray-and-pray data strategies to focus on what works
Episode Transcript
Scott Ritzheimer
Hello, hello and welcome. Welcome once again to the secrets of the high demand coach podcast. And here with us today is yet another high demand coach, this time from the other side of the pond, calling in, videoing in from the one and only Germany, somewhat a heritage point for me and a sore subject when it comes to my education, because my German is quite poor, but with us today, we have Ritavan, who is an entrepreneurial technology leader with a decade of experience focused on data driven business impact. He has authored peer reviewed papers, given invited talks at global conferences, and holds an international patent known for his first principles approach to building and scaling data driven solutions across industries. Ritavan combines deep technical expertise with strategic vision and execution focused mindset. His latest book offers actionable insights to accelerate data driven value creation for non software native businesses. And there’s going to be something in here for everyone. I’m really excited to unpack this so read event. Welcome to the show. So excited to have you here. You open up your book with this principle of strong opinions weekly held. How did that principle shape your approach to this book, and how can it help the folks listening today to rethink their data strategy?
Ritavan
Scott, great to be here, and that’s a great question to start out. So there are two reasons why both of these components are important. So you need strong opinions, because if you want to act and you don’t have like, you don’t have any opinion or assumption of where you’re operating or what you want to achieve, you can’t really act, right? So, and if you don’t act, you can’t have impact and weekly held, because if you have just strong opinions, and you’re not willing to adapt with with new information, with change in the environment, you will get wiped out. I mean, that’s that’s what evolution has taught us. And so I think having strong opinions is important to act in the short term to drive impact, but having them weekly held is important to be able to adapt with time.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, yeah. I love that. So with that in mind, in your book, you lay out this framework. Every time I see it, I think it’s the slay SOG framework. So that might slip a couple times. I don’t know if you if you spell, if you call it out or not, but SLA, SOG, how can a founder or CEO listening today use it to not just kind of understand their data better, but actually, like use their data, use their edge to reignite their growth?
Ritavan
Yeah. So the genesis of this framework is based on a couple of key insights. The first one is that data is no longer data is no longer something innovative to try out, something to just play around with, to look cool. I think that’s always the first way when something happens that you try to just play around, then the next one is very often, oh, we’ll use it as tooling, because by then, you know, some vendors have started creating solutions based on that. And so you think then that, you know, winning in data is about using certain tools. And the challenge there is, if you know, you’re a business that’s providing a certain value to your customers, and you just use new tooling. Even if that tooling is good, what’s going to happen is they’re going to be two winners here. One is the sellers of the tooling, right? The vendors, they’re going to make more money and to your customers, because now anyone can buy that tooling and compete with you. And so just having that tooling mindset on, you know, Let’s optimize a little step there. You know, use something else here. Get a little more efficient. That’s not going to help you win. But what has happened, I think, is that we’re now, we now have a clear value creation paradigm that is data, that is, you know, data driven, native. And so I think understanding that and thinking from that lens is important. So if you’re an industrial business, you know, in manufacturing, in energy, in insurance and whatever, right? That’s your that’s your core industrial value proposition, your legacy. But then, you know, there’s the digital paradigm, and then there’s the data driven paradigm, and understanding what your core value proposition is to your customer in each of these paradigms is important, than thinking about it strategically.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, there’s a lot of folks from what I call the blue collar, no more segment, you have folks that are industrial in nature, their their value creation and their operations are very physical in nature, whether it be construction or manufacturing or agriculture, and a lot of these spaces aren’t as tech forward as Silicon Valley, right or more IP based, service based organizations, and the struggle that I see for some of them is they feel a little left behind. They feel a little bit like, I don’t know if we can really compete. I don’t know if that we have what it takes. But you’ve outlined that there’s actually an edge that these types of organizations have. What is that?
Ritavan
Actually you’ve spoken to the pain, and I think I wrote this book because there was no book on this topic, like, if you are, what you call a blue collar no more company, right? What I call a legacy company, what you could call a traditional company, what you could call a non software native company, if you’re any of these right, you were, you’re today faced with these new these new value creation paradigms. In fact, you don’t even see them that way. You just get a lot of that hype, a lot of that excitement, and then you kind of feel lost and you’re not sure how to create value. And then what most people end up doing at that point is looking left and right and copying others, except that you can’t copy your way to success, and so that’s why I wrote the book. Now the important aspect why I kind of picked this as as the ideal reader is because legacy businesses have certain legacy advantages. And my core argument is, if you’re trying to create value in the data driven paradigm, you may as well leverage your existing, you know, what I call unfair, non digital advantages, right? And they’re bunch of them, right? So let’s start with the first one, super important. Start with your, you know, with your unique customer demand, right? If you’re an existing business like that means you have customers. Otherwise you wouldn’t be in business, right? So start from there. Obsess about that, focus on that, understand that. It sounds actually quite trivial, but unfortunately, most people don’t bother doing that, right? Because you’re running after the latest shiny object and data, shiny tech tool, right? The important thing is understanding what value you deliver to these customers, what more you can deliver to them, what else they might want and need, right? And that you could deliver to them through partnerships without it, right? But understanding that demand is super critical. The other thing is physical assets, right? So what happens very often is, you know, people diss about physical assets, or look, software is such insane margins. We should all be doing software. The point is, you can’t eat, you know, sleep, live in software, right? So we do, you know, we live in a world of atoms. That’s just a reality. We’re not, you know. And there was this whole move of, you know, everyone’s going to be in the metaverse. That’s not happened. Thankfully, I don’t think it’s going to happen very soon. We have physical bodies, right? So let’s start with those physical assets and try to understand how you can leverage them in the data driven value creation paradigm. And what that means is, if you have physical assets, like stores, like offices, like showrooms, like whatever, right, you are engaging with your customers in these physical assets, but you’re not really optimizing the experience for the customer, the value delivered to the customer in a data driven way. And a concrete example for this is Walmart in the US, right? So, you know, for the, let’s say, from around 2010 or so, when Amazon was really, you know, then established, and people took it seriously and said, Wow, these guys are growing insanely. They’re going to wipe out. We don’t need physical stores anymore. The whole story was they’re going to eat up the market. There’s not going to be anyone with physical stores. What’s happened in the last half decade is Walmart has doubled down on leveraging their unique advantage their physical stores, and so they understand their customer in a hybrid way. They know what the customer is doing online, on Walmart’s website, but they also know what the customer is doing in store. That’s something that a pure play digital player does not know, right? So now you have an advantage play on that turf, right? Pick that Battlefield, and you cannot but win, right? Yeah. And then, of course, you know, there’s your legacy brand, right? So then the question is, how do you leverage that? Because the struggle that most startups, or a lot of you know, tech companies, have, is initially establishing trust. You already have that trust, right? So how do you leverage that? Then there are other sources of data, right? So if you’re selling physical products, right? So your manufacturing company, wholesale, whatever, you’re moving products from point A to point B, right? The so the you have a supplier here, you have a customer there, right? If you, if you look at the data value chain, it’s in reverse, right? So you have a purchase intent on this side, right? And you have a supplier producing something that would love to know how to produce something better, right? In the most efficient way, in the sense of, like, you know, meeting the needs of that customer. And so if you reverse the flow of data, you can now create data driven products that you sell to your suppliers. So now your supplier become your customers in the data driven paradigm. So the physical paradigm, you have a supplier, customer, you know, flow of data, of goods, physical goods, in this direction. In the data driven paradigm, they’re reversed, right? So there’s a whole bunch of things you can leverage that are unique to you, right? That you know a software native company just cannot do. And if you, if you double down, if you embrace that, you cannot but win, right? Because these are unique to you, these advantages.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, that’s brilliant. I love, love that idea of reversing the flow of data. So I want to get time to at least work through a couple of. These different, you know, parts of your framework, the first one being save, which was a really interesting starting point for me, especially given kind of the context of the book. So for for folks that are that are already have these legacy brands, what are some of the top save strategies that allow them to not only kind of reveal their data advantage, but to use it to turn the whole system around, kind of inspire some fresh, fresh hope and vision for the the organization?
Ritavan
Yeah. So the message and save is basically, you know, this is, you’re probably doing a lot of stuff that is that you could just stop doing, right? So I use two key things, and one is what you could broadly call, you know, spray and pray, right? Which is like, oh, let’s, you know, let’s, let’s brainstorm use cases. Let’s try to crowdsource ideas, you know, in the company. And then we’ll try something here, we’ll try something there, and, you know, we hope something works out. That’s absurd, right? That’s not how it works. It is like, you know, if you’re trying to do agriculture and you just, you know, took random bunch of seeds and threw it around and hoped, you know, something would happen. I mean, something might grow, right? But, like, that’s not how you can build a, you know, a successful, sustainable agriculture business. So it’s the same thing with data, right? If you’re just doing random use cases, here and there. Or if you think you can buy vendor solutions and win, that’s the most absurd assumption people have. They have a nice anecdote, you know, from from Charlie Munger and Warren Buffett. And the story is that, you know, one of their execs walks in and says, we have, there’s a, there’s a new kind of textile mill. And this is, you know, when, when they were in the textile business back then, right? So it comes in and says, Hey, we should buy this mint. It’s, I don’t know, it’s two times more efficient or whatever. So we should totally get it, and we know we’re going to win. And one buffet just goes like, okay, let’s, let’s check whether it’s true. You know, because vendors very often lie or oversell. But if it’s true, right, then we need to exit the textile business, because if you have a lot of efficiency suddenly coming in on the supply side, right? Then again, there are two winners, right? The winners, the most important winner is the vendor, because they’re selling their machines to you, right? And the other winner is the customer, because now you’ve reduced the barrier to entry, right? So the value you capture as a traditional business is getting squeezed, and that’s what’s happening, right? So everyone’s like, well, let’s move to the cloud, right? Let’s buy, you know, let’s upgrade our CRM system to something more expensive. Let’s upgrade this. Let’s upgrade that. At the end, you’ve spent a lot of money and you haven’t got any value, right? And I’m not saying, don’t, and I’m not saying, you know, use, use pen and paper, right? That’s not what I’m saying. What I’m saying is just, just buying more tech is now going to make like, buying more vendor tech is not going to make you win, right? So that’s the same argument, which is, hey, just, just stop just throwing money around and hoping something will work out. Because that was never a winning strategy, and can never be a winning strategy, just logically, right?
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, I love that. So the next, next one here is leverage. And I’m wondering if, for the sake of time, you, if you don’t mind, just kind of give us the least we need to know about each of these remaining components. And obviously we’ll point folks to the books, fantastic book, and they can really dive in more, but just give us an intro to each of these remaining pieces.
Ritavan
Yeah, for sure. So leverage we just discussed, right? Which is your unique customer demand, your unfair non digital advantage, a whole bunch of other things, right? But basically, you want to find those unique, those unique assets, those unique, those unique kind of angles of attack, right that allow you to win, right, and that that are unique to you, right? Because if, if you’re doing something that anyone else can do, that’s not a moat. So you want to start there, and you want to also build on what you already have, right? Stop running, running after new trends and new hype, you know, start with what you have and kind of leverage that the next step is aligned, right? Which is like, once you have found your average, and there are some dads, companies are able, you know, that find their leverage, but then they’re still doing, you know, they don’t align everyone to that, and they’re still doing, they kind of operating like they did pre, pre, kind of pre leverage, right? And if you continue to do that, then the, you know, if leverage is drawing the bullseye, then alignment is the tip of the spear, right? You want to, you want to get everyone you want to put that. You want to put all your energy and all your power to driving that home to, kind of, you know, to hitting that bullseye. You know, because if you throw a whole bunch of sand right at that bullseye, and it’s not going to, not going to penetrate it, right? So you need that, you need that sharp tip of your spear, and then, you know, after alignment, then it’s simplification, and which is, you know, now that you have your spear and you have your bullseye, then remove everything else in between, right? Like you don’t want, you don’t want random obstacles on the way, right? Because that’s just going to add friction, slow it down. And the most important thing there is. Is, a lot of people say, oh, you know, but complexity, and how do we deal with that? And the thing is, complexity is born through problem solving, right? So, like, someone tries to fix something in your something breaks in your business, somewhere, someone tries to fix it. So it’s born out of good intentions, out of pragmatism, out of, you know, problem solving and but that adds up over time. And so it’s super important as as a business leader, to kind of take a step back, rethink and actively mitigate this increase in complexity, right, right? So complexities no one, no one wakes up in the morning and says, Let’s increase complexity in the business. Right? Complexity is born through a actually a problem. You know, the the error correction mechanism, right? Of problem solving, or fixing things day to day. Is what causes complexity? Yes, right? And so once you understand that, right, then you need to think very strategically about this. This is not something that will happen bottom ups, you know, bottom up right? You cannot kind of crowdsource simplification, right? That’s because complexity is born, you know, is born bottom up and then once you have that, right? So now you have your bullseye, you have the tip of your spear, you’ve kind of cleared all the obstacles. Now you can optimize, right? So now you have what it takes to kind of come up with an empirically valid model of the world. And it’s something that’s super important, because what happens very often is people don’t bother thinking through and modeling the world they operate in, you know, the environment they operate in correctly. And so what happens then is, if you make simplifying assumptions about your operating environment, then you end up having very simplistic models, but then they’re very hard to interpret. And I think there, there, you know, the complexity is going to be somewhere, right? And that sophistication has to be somewhere. So either you your model is sophisticated and understanding the world and then acting on that model, interpreting that model, becomes simpler, right? Or you have a simplistic model that does not capture the realities of the environment, and then you’re busy scratching your head, and you know, you show the same results to four or five people, and you’re going to get four or five opinions, right? And once you’ve optimized, the whole point of doing all of this is to grow, right? And so it’s super important to shed your scarcity mindset. And why is that important? Because it’s an industrial business. You’re structurally born in scarcity, right? So some and something I see in the book is that it’s only post post 1950 or so, that in some countries, you had too much supply, right? So now you need marketing. You need to think about how you sell your products, because prior to that, there was a shortage of everything all the time, right? That’s how you know, right? That’s how, that’s how you had colonization over several centuries. The the industrial age is structurally scarcity based, right? You need raw materials. You know, if this microphone here I’m speaking into, if you want to make one more, you need the exact amount of raw materials to make one more, etc. So, so you have fixed replication costs, you fixed personalization costs. And so everything is cost and supply driven, right? Which means you have to think in terms of scarcity, like, how much raw materials do I have? That tells me how many microphones I can make, and if I’m a little more efficient, then I can make a few more. But that’s it, right now, if you move into the digital data driven paradigm, replication, costs are essentially zero, right? It doesn’t like, once you’ve once you’ve built software, or once you’ve written an e book, it does not take you like you have no costs in sharing it with as many people as you want. And now what’s happening in the data driven paradigm is personalization costs in their broader sense, attorney, are kind of converging to zero right now. I don’t you know if I can speak to 1000s of people in a personalized way without constraining, you know, without additional costs, yeah, and if you don’t embrace that, then doing the rest of this last talk framework is useless. So I think it’s a logical framework built step by step that kind of helps you, you know, cut out the cut out the noise, cut out the clutter, right? Leverage, and, you know, leverage, the strengths you have, align everyone to those. Simplify by, you know, by not, by not carrying dead weight, right, optimizing now that you have this kind of leverage aligned, simplified setup, and all of this is to grow.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, I love it. I love it. Brilliant framework. It’s all in a book. We’ll make sure folks know how they can get a copy of it before we get there. I’ve got one more question for you. Ritavan, and that is this, what would you say is the biggest secret that you wish wasn’t a secret at all? What’s that one thing you wish everybody watching or listening today knew?
Ritavan
Yeah, it’s really, you know, as a, as a, as a legacy business, you can win in ways that you never imagined, right? Because every legacy business there is struggling. You see that in profit margins, right? You see that in flatlining growth rates, you know, single digit to almost zero profit margins. That’s not like you know, that seems to be your reality. That does not need to be your reality, right? You have a critical role in our lives. Like I said, we can’t eat software. We cannot live in software. And so we need, we, you know, we need these businesses. It’s just that these businesses need the right playbook, right to execute and win.
Scott Ritzheimer
I love that. I love that there are folks listening, and it’s a fresh word, a fresh tray of hope they haven’t heard in a long time, but and they want to know how they can find more. They want to get their data driven edge. Where can they get a copy of your book, and where can they find more about the work you do?
Ritavan
Yeah, so I’m pretty active on LinkedIn, so if you I’d love to engage. And you know, if you have questions, ping me there and just go to ritavan.com and that’s where you’ll find information about the book. Podcast episodes. Have done a lot of free material. I’m working also on a free email course. That’s a little spoiler here for everyone. So so you know, the idea is that you can get Instant FREE value. And if you, if you sign up there, the it allows us to stay connected, right? Because what happened with modern publishing is that it’s disconnected the author from the reader, because I don’t know where you’re buying your book, I don’t have a direct way of connecting with you. And the nice thing is, you know, if you go to my website, we can get connected. I can provide you more resources. I can provide you more more insights going forward, and I’d love to do that.
Scott Ritzheimer
That’s fantastic, right, man. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. Just a privilege having you here for those of you watching and listening, you know your time and attention mean the world to us. I hope you got as much out of this conversation as I know I did, and I cannot wait to see you next time. Take care.
Contact Ritavan
Ritavan is an entrepreneurial technology leader with a decade of experience focused on data-driven business impact. He has authored peer-reviewed papers, given invited talks at global conferences, and holds an international patent. Known for his first principles approach to building and scaling data-driven solutions across industries, Ritavan combines deep technical expertise with strategic vision and an execution-focused mindset. His latest book offers actionable insights to accelerate data-driven value creation for non-software native businesses.
Want to learn more about Ritavan’s work at www.ritavan.com? Check out his website at https://www.ritavan.com/
Podcast Booking Status: Open
We are looking for podcast guests, and we want to share your story.
Are you a coach, consultant, or advisor for entrepreneurial organizations? If so, let’s do a great show together – and we can promote you to our audience on all our social media channels, website, and email list.