In this clarifying episode, Chad Paris, Founder and CEO of Stonefly Consulting Group, shares why hiring great people and getting out of their way often backfires at this stage, how process keeps your growing team aligned to who you actually are, and simple ways to protect focus while still capturing your ideas. If you struggle with talented hires who still create chaos, loyalty promotions that stall growth, or feeling like something is “off” but you can’t name it, you won’t want to miss it.
You will discover:
– Why promoting loyal early team members into the wrong seats quietly creates chaos and stalled growth
– How to reconnect your original message so sales, marketing, and ops stay fluid as you scale
– What the “parking lot” tactic does to stop idea overload and finally get things finished
Episode Transcript
Scott Ritzheimer
Hello, hello, and welcome, welcome once again to the Start, Scale, and Succeed podcast, the only podcast that grows with you through all seven levels of your journey as a founder. I’m your host Scott Ritzheimer, and there’s this huge challenge that founders face, particularly in level three when they’re in that reluctant manager stage, and it’s the point where you’re just like wondering what’s wrong with these people, and it’s it’s really hard because these people should be great people. You didn’t hire slouches; you hired folks that you really believed in. But for some reason, it’s just not quite working out the way that you wanted, and it leaves you trying to figure out where did this all go wrong, and then on the other hand, sometimes we’ll get great people in, and we’ll think everything is wonderful, and then that person leaves or changes roles, and then all of a sudden there’s this whole you know calamity in their wake.
At this stage, we find ourselves very dependent on people, but for some reason, just people isn’t enough. And to hear here to help us explain what’s going on here and how we can think about it properly is Chad Paris, who spent 10 years in the classroom before spending 15 in executive sales leadership, hitting SVP and driving over 37 million in revenue growth across some demanding industries. But he kept seeing the same thing: great founders, solid products, real potential, but stalled out because the process underneath couldn’t carry the weight. So he started Stonefly Consulting Group. Now he works with SMB founders and operators to find gaps in their sales process, their workflows, and their people systems, and help them fix those before those gaps cost real money. He also hosts the Process Over Pressure podcast, where founders get honest about what almost broke them and what finally moved the needle. Process over pressure every time. Chad, welcome to the show. Glad you’re here. We’ve got quite the challenge for founders at this stage of figuring out what’s the role of process and what’s the role of bringing in great people, let’s just start with what’s wrong with this idea of hire great people and get out of their way.
Chad Paris
Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me, and it’s a pleasure to be here. Been looking forward to this conversation. You know, that’s a that’s a great question, and that’s a really, really, really, it’s it’s a question that’s not only great, but it’s a question that’s often missed. And I think you know when you think about being a owner, an entrepreneur, a business, someone that has built something from nothing, and they’re scaling that business and they’re starting to grow, and they get to a place where, okay, we’re not this small mom and pop anymore. We’re actually really growing, and need to hire good people, or have I had good people? There’s a couple of things that happened, and and and I’ll and I’ll talk about talk about several of them, but I’m gonna I’m gonna talk about really kind of two that I see a lot. One is as being the the owner, the entrepreneur, like you just discovered or said, and they’re they’re getting ready to scale. Maybe they’re ready to hire people, and there’s this sense of loyalty.
I started this from nothing. I’ve built this. These people have always been with me, and I’m very loyal to them. And while I’m all for loyalty, 100, as an owner that’s scaling, you have to ask yourself. There’s a difference in being loyal to your people and and putting someone in the right seat that can help drive your business to growth. While I’m not saying, hey, they’re not loyal, never give them an opportunity. That’s not what I’m saying. But you have to be very careful because there’s this trap where you feel like you know I’m comfortable with this person, they’ve been there. They’re loyal to me. I know I can put them in this position, but they’re not right fit for the organization and the growth that you’re trying to get to. And so, oftentimes, I see leaders where where they’ll promote because of you know this person been with me and and they’re loyal to me, and and those people are are are gung ho to do good for you, and they they say yes, I will do the job, and I’m excited about doing the job. But if you really got down to it, they’re probably that’s not my strong suit. That’s not something I’m really good at.
But I’m in this position now, and I’m going to do a really good job. And it ends up becoming this sense of misunderstanding or chaos or what, or processes broken, or whatever it is, and you live in this lull of time, and it happens a lot. It happens a lot, and and and that’s that’s number one that I see. And then the second is is that let’s say you you you’re getting ready to you know grow, or you’re you’re looking at your organization, and there’s just a lack of the of a overall process. The and what I mean by that, and I’ll make it simple, is because processes can mean a lot of things. What I’m talking about is specifically where you have started this company. It’s grown really fast. You’ve had a lot of people in these different positions. In different seats throughout your company, and oftentimes from where you started to where you are today, you don’t even have the same message. You’re not even the same company. People are out here selling on an idea of what you hired them to do versus what the real reality is is of what you do, and it gets misconnected. And so you go down this time where they’re out selling this, and it’s not even what we do. And so you get a lot of mixed message or or description of who you are as a company, and it loses that that that longevity and all the time that was spent building that company to what it was because you end up changing. You don’t know you change, but you change on the philosophy and who you really are.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, it’s such an interesting challenge, and and I want to pick up on this thread because a lot of folks I don’t think talk about it, but process does mean a lot of things to a lot of people, and I think we use the word a little flippantly because the process for a team of five versus a process for a team of 500, those are two very different things, and and I I don’t think we tend to be careful enough with that. So I want to dive in in this realm that we’re talking about here. What does process mean?
Chad Paris
Yeah, and and and you’re absolutely right. It’s it’s all about the dynamic of the team and the number of team and how big the team is right. When I when I I’m just going to do it down to the simplest of forms. When I think about a process, that is to me in in again we can go many many. There’s many many levels of the process, but when you get down to the I guess the grassroots or what I would call the beginning level, and we can scale up in different processes throughout that is, is what is it that you do today, versus what it is that you did two years ago. When you look at that and you say, okay, this is what we started as, and this is what we are, because because you’ll be able to easily tell that, right? Now take that and then dive into how do we go? Let’s just use the marketing side of it or the sales side of it.
We we can go about different ways because because it goes operationally, it goes leadership, it goes all of it. But we’re going to try to for for explanation purposes. When I think about process, it’s this. Okay, this is who we were when we started, and now our marketing and what we’re talking about is totally different. Kind of elaborate on that. So the process in which we started to what we’re actually selling today is not aligned. There, there is no, there is no direct feed. It’s totally in snip somewhere in the middle. Something broken down. What I look at is is in that small of a of an example is is getting that link connected back together and how that works. How does the marketing team work with the operational teams that work with the sales team and how is our message fluid throughout that? That’s what I mean, and that’s a very small example trying to give you an illustration of what I mean by the process. That’s the starting to the end, and how does that flow all together? Does it flow all together? Is it choppy? Is there some areas that are maybe this group’s not bought in? They’re not understanding that they’re going their own path, and if that’s happening, you’ve got a lot of different moving parts that are not working together.
Scott Ritzheimer
It’s fascinating because you can kind of get away without that for a while, right? You can, you can, you know, you can have a couple people, you can hire a couple great people, and then they all start running. What would you say to the person who’s like, “We haven’t needed that before. Why do we need that now?”
Chad Paris
Yeah. So I’ll try to answer it this way. I when you know when you when you had this conversation with an owner, business owner, not long ago, and one of the things that is is kind of was kind of eye opening for for this person, and and I’m going to use their name for, but I’ll but I’ll give you an example of the story or what happened. As you, as a business owner, start growing, and you’re starting to, you know, man, thank goodness it’s growing. We’re developing. We’re moving. We’re we’re expanding. We’re making more money we ever made. What happens is is that one entrepreneur at that time, you know, he was he was able to handle it because there was only two or three or four or five. But we’re growing, right? The first thing that happens is is they go and say, “We well, we’re growing. We got to get more help. We got to get more help. Got to get more help.” And so they start hiring people, and they say, “Well, I need a new sales leader.
I’m going to hire senior director of sales. I’m going to hire that person.” Man, they look at their resume. Look how good they are. I’m bringing that person in. Boom, man. We’re we’re growing. We need to get a marketing person. I’m going to get this marketing person. Look at what they’ve done at this company. And so they start putting these different caliber people. What’s missed is, and this is exactly what was happening with this company is is that you didn’t teach them the direction, you didn’t teach them who you were, you didn’t teach them what we’re about. So you hired them based off of a resume, saying, “Man, they’re really good.” So what are they doing? I’m hiring them to run the show because they’re talented. Look at what they’ve been able to do at the other company. They come in and they put their own philosophy of what. Worked for them, and this philosophy worked for. And so, before you know it, the entire philosophy has changed from what you started or who you really are. And so, that is an example of a of an eye opener for them to go, “Holy cow! What do you mean? I need this. This is what I mean. You need it. Like it can get broken that fast without you knowing it.”
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, one of the things that I think is so poignant about this, especially at this stage, is well, there’s two. One is that the founder is still so close that they they have to be in alignment with it, and founders don’t necessarily do a good job at falling in line. You know, if it really doesn’t come from you, the chances are you’re not really going to follow through on it. And so, we’ll just stick with this one for a second. One of the things I see founders do is like, you know, yes, we need a process, and by we they mean ye. You know, like everyone else needs a process, but if you’re not really behind it, you’re probably the biggest culprit for missing it. Do do you see that, and how do you help founders work through that tension?
Chad Paris
Yeah, it’s it’s it’s interesting. You know, a lot of the founders, a lot of you know people that have created something have a a very creative. I would say have the very creative gene. They have a they have a very high order of thinking, and they’re very much constantly coming up with new ideas, or constantly thinking of man, that’s a that’s a good idea. That’s a thought, or that’s a thought. And so, what happens is, is all these thoughts start running their head. They’re, you know, you’ve heard of the people in the middle of the night. They get up, they take their notebook, and they write things down because it’s just flooding them. Right? Talk to any business owner; they’ll tell you that they do that because it’s all this stuff coming out. And so, what happens is, is they’re starting creating all these ideas.
And then, what what they do to their people that they don’t realize they do is they may go in and say, “Hey, this is what we’re going to do,” and then oh, by an hour later, come back and say, “I want you to add this. I want you to add this. I want you to add this. What about this? What about this?” And so before you know it, where you started, like, man, it was a good idea, and can’t understand why nothing ever gets completed. It’s because you’ve given them about 86 other items along with that to do, and they’re not able to ever accomplish anything. So I started this strategy a long time ago, and I love it for my founders and owners. And I call it the parking lot. And I create this sheet just so that they have a place to put what we call their ideas, their topics, their things, their thoughts, and it’s called in the parking lot.
I I look at the parking lot. I talk to them about the parking lot. I even teach their people how to look at the parking lot and talk about the parking lot. And it’s a place for them to put their thoughts. Now, look, we’re not going to get to that right now because we’re working on the other four things. But it’s in there, and we recognize it and we see it. Most founders don’t have people saying, “Hey, I saw what you put in there. I acknowledge that it’s there. I got you. We’re going to get to that, but here’s where we are right now. That’s all they need is someone to say, “I heard you. I got it. It’s down. Let’s move on.”
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah.
Chad Paris
This is a this is a very easy tactic that I teach a lot of people how to do, and it makes life so much easier for the owner and founder. And then you see things getting accomplished rather than you just got this list that keeps growing. Because what do we do as people? We’re doers. We want to get it fixed. Boss told me to come do it. I’m going to get it done. And then we got 75 things on our plate that never gets completed.
Scott Ritzheimer
It’s so true. It’s so true. It happens all the time. It does. Yeah, Chad. There’s a question that I ask my guests. I’m interested to see what you have to say. But it is this: what What is the biggest secret that you wish wasn’t a secret at all? What’s What’s that one thing you wish every founder watching or listening today knew?
Chad Paris
I think there’s a. I think there. This is a. I guess kind of a secret, or or it may not be classified as secret, but maybe it’s a stereotype or a feeling, so I just maybe I’m stretching a little bit here on this, but I want to make sure. I think it’s important. There’s this word that I think a lot of owners and founders do, and they go, “Am I norm? Is this normal? Am I normal? Is my company normal? Am I normal?” And I and I hate that word, but it’s true. They do. They go, “Am I normal?” And and the fear is is that they don’t ask for help, or they don’t talk to someone to give them some advice or pour into them, because being a founder and owner is very lonely when you’re at the top. You don’t have a group of people around that you can go talk about, and the last thing you want to do as an owner or founder is maybe bring up something that you’re not good at. People look at you and go. I thought they was the owner. They should know everything, right?
I mean, you’re the owner. You’re the smartest person in the room. You should be. And there’s this fear that they may not be doing it right, or they’re not normal, or something’s off. When the reality is, is they’re very normal, and everybody else is going through that. And if they spent more time actually asking and talking to people and having people that they can have come in, whether it be a consultant or who it is that they can lean on and really give them an opportunity to bounce some ideas off, I think they would see the pressure peel off of them. And so I think it’s I think it is a very much a secret that I wish was not a secret, but it is because people are just afraid to do it.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, it’s so true. It’s so because the the journey that founders go through is so deeply personal, and and because of that, we can have a tendency to then kind of internalize that, make it individual. And the reality of it is, like we all share a very similar journey, different variables and different times and different strengths. And yeah, there’s there are plenty of things that are unique, but I really love that you’re drawing that out because it there’s so much about this experience that really is shared, and yeah, it can’t be said enough. I really love that, Chad. There are folks that want someone to be able to help them answer the question: Is this normal? And and and so, where can folks find more out about you? Where can they find the podcast, or what would be a next good step for someone who wanted to connect with you?
Chad Paris
Yeah, thank you for asking that. And again, I want to thank you again for for allowing me to come on and have a have a conversation with you. I think it’s important as us as as owners and leaders and founders, and we’re going through our own journey, but if we can experience the the advantage that we get is we get to experience a lot of different companies and where they are because we’re on the consultant side. And so what I when I started this, I’ve always wanted to take that piece and say my job is to help people grow, help them to be successful. That’s the way I look at what I do. And so if you’re if you’re one of those people and you’re just.
I just need to have a conversation. Like I don’t charge people to have a conversation. I think it’s most ridiculous thing ever. So you can reach me. I’m easy to get a hold of. I’m Chad at StoneflyConsulting.com. My website is StoneflyConsulting.com. Also have my podcast where I do a lot of these. It’s Process over Pressure. You can find it on YouTube channel. But yeah, I’m a lot like you. I want to. I want to help people, and I want to. You know, I’m a good bouncing soundboard. I’m a firm believer that if if I can help you and start sorting things out for you and making your life easier and being more, you know, understanding and how I can be more successful, then then you’re gonna. I’m gonna be more value to you than than anything else.
Scott Ritzheimer
So good, so good. We’ll get all those in the show notes for you. Don’t have to go chasing any of them down. We’ll get the links and everything right there for you. Chad, thanks for being on today. It was really a privilege and honor having you here. Loved this conversation and enjoyed getting to spend some time together. Push record while we’re at it. For those of you watching and listening, you know your time and attention mean the world to us. I hope you got as much out of this conversation as I know I did, and I cannot wait to see you next time. Take care.
Scott Ritzheimer
Hey everyone, Scott Ritzheimer here. Thank you so much for listening to the Start, Scale, and Succeed podcast. I hope this episode gave you exactly what you need for the level you’re in right now, if you want to discover what level you’re in, take our 10-question Founders Evolution Quiz for free at foundersquiz.com. That’s foundersquiz.com. It’ll pinpoint exactly where you are and give you tailored tips to move forward and reach that next level in your journey as a founder, if you got something out of today’s episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, or review. It helps us reach more founders like you, and let’s be honest, it means a ton to me, my team, and all our incredible guests. So keep starting, scaling, and succeeding, and I’ll see you in the next episode.
Contact Chad Paris
Chad Paris spent 10 years in the classroom before spending 15 more in executive sales leadership — hitting SVP level and driving over $37 million in revenue growth across some demanding industries. But he kept seeing the same thing. Great founders, solid products, real potential — stalled out because the process underneath couldn’t carry the weight. So he started Stonefly Consulting Group. Now he works with SMB founders and operators to find the gaps — in their sales process, their workflows, their people systems — and fix them before those gaps cost real money. He also hosts the Process Over Pressure podcast, where founders get honest about what almost broke them and what finally moved the needle. Process over pressure every time.
Want to learn more about Chad Paris’ work at Stonefly Consulting Group? Check out his website at https://www.stoneflyconsulting.com/
Connect with Chad Paris through his LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/chad-paris-34828122/
Check out Chad Paris podcast Process over Pressure with Chad Paris at https://www.youtube.com/@processoverpressure-sf
Email Chad Paris at [email protected]