In this clarifying episode, Richard Broo, Principal and Founder of True North PMP Consulting, shares how how stage 5 CEOs can diagnose and fix disconnects that derail projects and performance. If you feel overwhelmed by complexity, frustrated by information gaps between levels, or sense your team is not aligned despite your efforts, you won’t want to miss it.
You will discover:
– What to do instead of blaming when things go wrong
– Why breakdowns happen even with smart people and strong intentions
– How to assess the true current state by talking directly to people at every level
Episode Transcript
Scott Ritzheimer
Hello, hello, and welcome. Welcome once again to the Start Scale and Succeed podcast, the only podcast that grows with you through all seven stages of your journey as a founder. I’m your host, Scott Retzheimer, and I still remember there was this distinct change that I couldn’t describe at the time I was founder, CEO of a business. We moved from being this small entrepreneurial startup to one day kind of woke up and found like we’re this full blown enterprise, and as nice as that sounds, and as much as I probably bragged about it quite a bit, if I’m honest, it seemed like on the inside it was a heck of a lot harder than I expected, because just about every day demanded a new skill or new way of thinking that I did not have at the time. Now, as a coach, I recognize this same challenge that catches almost every founder by surprise when they reach this CEO stage.
There’s so much to consider, there’s so much to understand, and there’s so much that has to get done, and you’re so dependent on so many people for every step of that process that it can be very, very overwhelming. The simplest problems, like realizing you’re paying $10 for a part that should only cost $1 somehow comes with so much complexity that you wonder if you ever, if you’ll ever get anything done. Well, if that’s you, I am thrilled to have you here. Because today’s guest is Richard Broo, who spent more than 40 years helping organizations identify and correct project issues before they become costly failures. He has worked with Fortune 500 companies, mid-market firms, and private equity-backed businesses across industries, including packaging, automotive, consumer goods, industrial manufacturing, and medical equipment.
His expertise includes product management, project management, new product development, commercialization, and operations. He’s also led businesses through major turnarounds, including stabilizing a failing medical packaging company and guiding it through bankruptcy to a successful $22.2 million sale. He’s here with us today. Richard, welcome to the show. I’m so glad to have you on today. I’m excited about this conversation. I want to jump in with a question here. You’ve spent a long time, over 40 years, of walking into rooms where projects or companies are bleeding out money, they’re out of time, and that all happens under the watch of some really clever people, some really smart CEOs who’ve had a ton of success in the past. How does that happen? How do we let things get so out of control?
Richard Broo
But first of all, thanks for having me, Scott. And that’s a very good question. And from my experience, it gets out of control because the different levels within the organization, either have different expectations about what you’re, what they’re trying to do, what they’re trying to achieve, and they’re not communicating with one another on all cylinders, if you will. So I have found that that’s one of the critical reasons why some of the brightest and best minds get derailed, because those that they depend on always don’t provide all the information or the right information at the right time.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, yeah, it’s this like game of telephone times hundreds and 1000s, and and I think the challenge of it is for founders who you’ve kind of been growing up through all of these different levels and stages, they’ve got a pretty keen sense on the feel for the organization. They know it needs to get done, and I think we actually misinterpret the fact that our executives have that same level of intuition. We kind of think that they know exactly what’s happening at any given point in time, when sometimes they’re just as in the dark as us, where in this game of phone, when we realize that it’s breaking down? What are some of the first steps to start to clarify things?
Richard Broo
Well, having done several turnarounds and helped some of the General Electric divisions become more profitable and operationally efficient, you know, the first thing that that I look for is current state. What is what is the current state? What if you’re the CEO? I want to know what do you know? What do you think? What do you feel? You know what’s your impression about what’s going on here. But I don’t want to stop there. I want to go down below you. I want to talk to your staff. I want to talk to the people within the organization to see, are they are they seen and thinking the same things that you are, because what I find is there is some degree of disconnect, you know. The boots on the ground are trying to make something happen, right? I mean, that’s why I’m a boot on the ground.
I’m here to help advance the company, but I may not.. I’m live, I’m actually living on the ground, doing the work where the CEO is up several levels, or some of the management might be, and they may not really understand what’s going on down at the boots level, or they may have what they think is an understanding by gathering points of information, but that information, it’s not been put together properly, it’s not been connected properly, so that you know by the time it gets. Way up to the top, you know that person says, “Well, wait a minute, what’s going on here? And you say, “Well, this is what’s really going on, and this has not been elevated enough to our levels. So, you first, I first look for is what you told me, as this founder and a CEO, the same as what I’m hearing on the floor, where the people are doing the work. If not, there’s a disconnect, and we have to figure out why that disconnect exists.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, yeah, with that disconnect, oftentimes it can be really painful, and and there’s this feeling that we’ve kind of got to jump in and find someone to blame. We don’t necessarily say it that way, but we feel it that way, it’s like we have there’s this almost visceral reaction to point fingers. Is that helpful? Is it not helpful? What is an appropriate response when we find out that there’s been a disconnect?
Richard Broo
It’s not helpful to blame. I mean, when we, when you boil it all down, we’re all people, we’re all trying to do what we think is the right thing, and the only way you’re going to come through, like what I put Headwind Corporation through before I sold it, or helping turn around GE silicones, is you have to have some degree of empathy and open-mindedness to talk to the people about the situation, gather exactly what they feel that is, look for the connections and the disconnects, and then employ them, employ them to help close these disconnects. But for me to say to you, well, you know, Scott, this is all your division’s fault. That’s not going to solve anything. I’m going to alienate you, and I’m disrespecting you and the people that work for you. So it’s all about getting the people moving in the same direction, understanding the same objectives and goals, and making sure that there’s that accountability and ownership that they want to go that way. And the only way you’re going to get there is with your people, so don’t blame them, engage them.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, when there’s been a big mistake, or there’s been a pattern of mistakes, and maybe you want to handle those two separately. You’re more than welcome to, but how do we separate when it, when it is the person versus when it’s more of a process or systemic challenge?
Richard Broo
Well, I’ve been through that at Headwind. There were there were some groups within that company that were not performing as expected, and some of it was the person, but when he’s, when you talk about the person and the situation, you first have to ask yourself, as a leader, is that person the right person for that job? Do they, do they really have the skill sets to do that? And, and ahead, when I, I had a manufacturing manager that was thrust in, in the job that didn’t have that experience, he did not have the experience of running, you know, three different buildings, all this different equipment, and he was just miscast, so I put someone in there that knew the operation, that knew how to run it, but that didn’t mean the person that was miscast was a bad person, he had a great rapport with the customers, so I put him into sales, and he flourished. So, you first look at the people, I ask myself, is this person miscast in the role? Is this person really trying hard? I mean, do they have the heart for what, for the company, what they’re trying to do? If I see that, I’m going to try to help that person get to where they need to be, and find someone else to take over where they were that can do the job. Yeah, yeah, and it’s all about people understanding the skill sets required. And do you have the right people?
Scott Ritzheimer
One of the things that makes that challenging for founders, especially when they’ve had team members and leaders and executives who’ve kind of grown up in the business with them, is that at one point in time that may have been true, they were the right person in the right seat, doing the right thing, but those roles aren’t static, they’re growing with the organization. And how do you help someone figure out whether or not that’s changed? Like, how do you stop when they’ve had so much success in the past and you see them as a successful leader? How do we, how do we stop in the current moment and reassess.
Richard Broo
Well, my style, what I did at headwind, and when I did a GE is I actually met with the person, I said, you know, you’ve, you’ve had success up to this point, you’re obviously struggling. Some admitted to the struggle, some had to be, I guess, coached to understand the struggle, but eventually understand they’re struggling. Okay, why are you struggling? What is it about what you do on a day-to-day basis for this job that’s preventing you to have a continued success that will come out in those conversations? And then the next question I would say, well, if that’s the case, Scott, do you really want to continue in this role that you’re in and risk more failure, or can we work together to find a spot for you where you can flourish again? Because if you do, I can help you with that. But even though you’ve grown up in this business, so you and I grew up together, it’s not working anymore, and it’s all perhaps not your fault. There’s circumstances involved. But again, you have value. Where can I use that value now to get you back on track and get the company back on track?
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, yeah, it’s such a hard conversation, but approaching it through that lens, I think, is so powerful, and I’m regularly surprised at how well that works. I’ve seen folks even offered to have themself demoted to another role, demoted, but into a role that’s a better fit, and really thrive in it. So, from a people standpoint, I love that input and advice. It’s a great conversation to have. The other thing that you talked about, and kind of opened the episode with, is that the people are saying and seeing different things, and, and so one of the challenges, or one of the ways I’ve seen companies try to overcome this, is they just share everything with everyone, not literally, but almost, and it’s just it’s emails and emails and meetings and meetings, and there’s a, there’s a too much that’s just as bad as too little. How do you figure out what the right information is, and the right channels to share it?
Richard Broo
Well, when it comes down to a personal conversation, to me it’s person to person. I’m not going to air laundry that doesn’t have to be air, if you will. So, if I have a people issue, I’m going to go to the people involved and have a direct one on one, understand where their head’s at, understand, you know where their choking points are, and to talk to them about we can come through this if we want to work together through it, if it’s a process-related thing, and we had, we, you know, at GE at Silicones, it was, it was, it was struggling fairly much, and basically we had a product issue, and we were trying to compete against companies like Dow and Varga Chemical, and everybody thinks she’s this great company with all these products, but we had products that couldn’t compete with them, so I had to go back to the product development people and say this is where we’re really strong in this kind of chemistry, not that kind of chemistry, you’ve been trying to fight that kind of chemistry, where we’re losing for the last 10 years on the automotive side, we’re already beat, but let’s go over here, where we can have a new market or market segment and win again. So, I think you have to, I think you have to find a way to divide it. If it’s people, it’s one on one, it’s figuring out where the choke points are, how to get them back on track, not and use their value if it’s, if it’s process or product wise, you’ve got to go back within, within the organization with the facts, obviously, and say we’re not winning here, and we’re not winning here because of our people, we’re not winning here because we don’t have products that can compete in the marketplace, but we have strengths over here where the competitors don’t, that’s what we need to exploit.
Scott Ritzheimer
Got it, got it. So, good, Richard. There’s this question that I have. I ask all my guests. I’m interested to ask it of you as well. And the question is this: What is the biggest secret that you wish wasn’t a secret at all? What’s that one thing you wish everybody watching or listening today knew?
Richard Broo
I wouldn’t call it a secret, I would call it point of concern. There’s no issue, there’s no problem that you cannot overcome if you just have the gumption, the desire to have the hard conversations with the people that you’re trying to nurture to grow your company or to turn your company around. You know, I grew up in GE before it became Welsh’s real GE of empowerment, where people were afraid to talk. I’m afraid to talk to Scott, because I’m afraid if Scott takes what I say wrong, politically I could be killing myself. Or I don’t really want to admit this to Scott, because if I do, I’m showing a sign of weakness. The big secret is don’t be that way. Admit to what you don’t know, admit to what you can’t do, and ask for the help. That’s strength, that’s not weakness. But I think a lot of people feel within themselves, I don’t want to expose myself to that. It’s no big secret, you know. And I think you get more respect and more help and more runway if you do that with with the people you work for and the people you work with.
Scott Ritzheimer
Absolutely, absolutely, Richard. There are some folks who are listening and hanging on everywhere. You said just completely describe the situation they’re in, and they’d love to have help navigating through some of these turbulent waters. Where can folks find more out about you and the work that you do. Where can they reach out to connect with you?
Richard Broo
They can find me on LinkedIn. I’m Richard Broo, B R O O. My company has a website, ww dot true north pmp consulting.com And I’ll be more than happy if one of your listeners would like to talk with me. It would be my privilege.
Scott Ritzheimer
Fantastic, fantastic. Well, Richard, thank you so much for coming on and sharing the wealth of experience that you had. I know we’ve only scratched the surface of the surface, and for those of you listening, you know that your time and attention mean the world to us. I hope you got as much out of this conversation as I know I did, and I. Cannot wait to see you next time. Take care.
Contact Richard Broo
Richard Broo has spent more than 40 years helping organizations identify and correct project issues before they become costly failures. He has worked with Fortune 500 companies, mid-market firms, and private-equity-backed businesses across industries, including packaging, automotive, consumer goods, industrial manufacturing, and medical equipment. His expertise includes product management, project management, new product development, commercialization, and operations. He has also led businesses through major turnarounds, including stabilizing a failing medical packaging company and guiding it through bankruptcy to a successful $22.2 million sale.
Want to learn more about Richard Broo’s work at True North PMP Consulting? Check out his website at https://truenorthpmpconsulting.com/
Connect with Richard through his LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardbroo