In this strategic episode, Saul Cohen, Partner / CEO of The Expert Eye, shares how to shift from operator to investor mindset for long-term freedom. If you struggle with feeling stuck in daily operations despite success in stage 5, you won’t want to miss it.
You will discover:
– What team additions (beyond C-suite) help you think in portfolios instead of one business
– Why your identity as an operator must evolve before you can thrive as an investor
– How to assess your business monthly like an external investor to gain fresh perspective
Episode Transcript
Scott Ritzheimer
Hello, hello and welcome. Welcome once again to the Start scale and succeed podcast. It’s the only podcast that grows with you through all seven stages of your journey as a founder. I’m your host, Scott Ritzheimer, and I want to talk to those of you who aren’t in active founder mode anymore. You’ve you’ve built a successful business, maybe you’ve led a successful nonprofit, and now you’ve stepped back from the day to day, and you may be discovering that being a great operator, being a great owner, is very different from being a great investor. They’re two very different skill sets, and it’s such an interesting challenge, because you’ve kind of for the first time in this whole journey, you have both wealth freedom and time freedom. And on some days, if we’re honest with ourselves, it’s actually kind of terrifying. Like, what do you do? You get this Ricky Bobby moment. What do you do with my hands? And so what we’re going to do, we’re going to explore what exactly you can do to make this shift from owner to operator.
And you don’t want to hear me blab about it. So we’ve got an excellent guest for you today, whose name is Saul. Cohen. Saul is an experienced accountant and acquisitions advisor with a career spanning PWC and leadership roles at the expert eye. He helps established entrepreneurs transition from business operators to investors by providing strategic financial guidance, including tax planning acquisitions and business exits. Saul primarily works with business owners earning over a million dollars or pounds, I should say, annually, joining us from the other side of the pond here and helping them to optimize their wealth, plan successful exits and achieve long term financial freedom. He combines technical expertise with practical strategies to empower entrepreneurs to build lasting value, recreation, reclaim their time and create a meaningful legacy. And he’s here with us today. Saul, welcome to the show. Glad to have you here. Here. I love this topic because I have seen it work really, really well for founders. I’ve seen it work really, really poorly for some founders as well. What’s the difference between those who thrive as investors from those who maybe even run the risk of losing it all?
Saul Cohen
I think fundamentally, it’s an identity piece, actually, because I think, you know, entrepreneurs are impressive people, successful entrepreneurs even more so. And I think it takes a lot to be a successful entrepreneur and to see out that journey to a successful exit. And I think fundamentally, if you’ve made that, if you’ve rode that journey at whatever level it was, you know, if you’ve achieved that success over 20 years, even if that was to provide a good, comfortable life for your family, you’re living a good life in retirement. You are the top 1% probably in a top naught point one naught point 5% you know like you’re in that top bracket, you’re an impressive person, and I think that’s important to recognize, because generally, those successful entrepreneurs are incredibly humble people and and the interesting thing that I’ve I’ve picked up over the years, is the shift is primarily in their own identity, and that the person they need to be and the appreciation that this new person needs to learn new skills and operate in a slightly different manner.
Scott Ritzheimer
I don’t know that I could describe what has to happen in every level better than that, because it is. It’s a new set of skills, and it comes from a new understanding of who you are, or a deeper understanding of who you are. I think would be even more accurate when we’re talking about this, this identity shift from operator to investor. Where do you see folks getting hung up?
Saul Cohen
I think sometimes it’s letting go. But I’m reluctant to say letting go, because I know that every listener is going to say, No, I want to let go. I love delegating responsibility, and you know, that’s what I want to do, but I think they find it hard to let go in a way that enables to let go in a way in which they retain power and control over the business and over the destination, and that, I think, is, where is the skill set that’s needed. It’s and that often comes from reporting and, you know, understanding the right numbers. And it’s, I suppose it is. Generally, most entrepreneurs are very creative. You know, people type people. You know, they love talking to people. They love meeting people. They love sales, they they love coming up with ideas. And they’re not very numbers driven, right? They’re not, they don’t love dealing with KPIs. And you know, holding people to make, making, holding people accountable to their. Performance by a number, and it’s not in their nature. And so I think they struggle to come up with the right numbers. And I always say to people that I work that are my clients and people that we work with, I always sort of say to them, actually, it’s stop thinking about it in terms of thinking you need to do this, and start thinking about who do you need in your team who can hold everyone accountable so you can, you can do this. And often, that’s it’s the CFOs role, right? And the CFO will, will be the guy and you say, right, you know, or the woman who comes in and they say, right, here’s, everyone’s got their own PNL. And these are the three numbers that everyone in the organization has to have.
Sometimes that’s the COO sometimes that’s the CFO, between them, you know, if we’re thinking about that, the C suite. And I think is that move to move into C suite. I think the other thing that I’d mentioned, obviously, so I’m lucky enough to have done this at many levels. And one of the interesting things that I noticed when I left VWC and moved into the small, medium business world is that there are many individual, family run businesses, or, you know, a sole entrepreneur type business at the sort of 1 million, 2 million, even 10 million, revenue type mark in the US, it might Be a little bit different, maybe, let’s say, like 15, 20 million mark. But above that, it becomes incredibly rare to find a an entrepreneur who has taken the business from day dot 200 million, 150 1 billion. You know, that sort of size company norm on their own. Normally, they’ve done so with outside investment, with other people who’ve bought in and way of understanding and an operational, you know, know how of what it means to take that the business on those journeys. And I do think it’s an incredible like, yeah, as you say, every, every level, entrepreneurs just have to learn so much. And yeah, I think this is probably one of the biggest jumps in terms of saying I’m an owner operator to I’m an investor, because it changes so much about your identity and also about your day to day.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, here’s one of the the, I guess, seemingly subtle but really important shifts that I see folks make, and it’s, it’s probably most simply put as a shift from one to many. When you’re the founder owner, your job is to lead your organization, singular, your business singular. When you shift out of that stage of being the CEO being the one who’s leading the enterprise. If you don’t stop thinking in terms of just that one organization, you’re going to get in the way right, or you’re going to get really bored. And that’s even worse. And so how do you help folks to kind of lift their gaze? That’s, that’s, you know, historically been confined, at least to some extent, by their business, to be able to think in terms of businesses or as an investor with a portfolio mindset.
Saul Cohen
It’s interesting, because I think it’s a great, fantastic question, and I think it’s really common, and the most common way in which I see people do it is they the way entrepreneurs learn everything is just through stumbling around and, you know, figuring it out. You know, maybe they set a business, they decide they want to get back into it, and they reach a level of success much faster because they know the journey, and they they already start naturally thinking, because they’re comparing the two businesses that they’ve run in their own experience and suddenly, like it’s just like a natural switch and a natural progression. And that’s the most common way in which it’s done. I think the best way that I’ve ever seen it being done is people taking time out of their first business. They take time out they plan in their first in their existing business, they stop for maybe one day a month, or, you know, some people I know are doing this, you know, once a week, even depending on on the level and what’s feasible. But you stop at least one day a month, and you go outside of the business, find a nice environment to work in, and you you sit down with like a, essentially a check in, and you assess your business as an investor.
Now the best way to do that a level above that would be to do it with a mentor or someone who is already an investor, maybe like an SME type investor or an angel, or, you know, a friend that you know who who’s already exited, and you know someone who could be a mentor and just sort of guide you through that process, but actually you do that from an outsider’s point of view, and say, right? How would an outsider assess my business right now? What would what are the strengths? What are the weaknesses? What are the opportunities? What threats are they seeing? What is the single biggest bottle? Neck. And I think, honestly, I do this personally in my business, and it’s just, it’s incredible the perspective that you get when you do that, and you take that time, and you just so anyway, operationally, it’s fantastic. But in terms of changing your own headspace, I think that’s amazing as well, because you start acting as an investor, and it’s only a small amount of time, one day a month, you know, again, really important. You’re not contactable by the team. You’re completely switched off from the business. But it allows you that ability, that one day a month, to step into the world of of your next level and and once you do that, then you start learning more about how you want the investor that you want to become.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah. So you’ve you’ve mentioned getting help and having someone come alongside you a couple of times throughout this. Now, I think this is another one of those really big differences between level five CEO stage and level six owner stages, who your team is, right? We talked about COO and CFO, and those are really instrumental roles on an executive team. But being in level six, you need other folks who are outside of that business to help you engage outside of that business. Who do you see folks bringing onto their team, after their executive team?
Saul Cohen
After C suite? You mean, yeah, well, often it’s, well, it’s one of two, two things. We’re either bringing on experience, or we’re bringing on finance. Experience is great because it means that you don’t dilute your equity. And in someone can give you some know how and and knowledge. And essentially, it’s like a coach at a different level. And you know, you might have a non Executive Director, or someone who’s been there, done that they’ve seen a couple of exits in your industry, type, type person, incredibly valuable. And it allows you to, it allows you to morph into that role in a more gradual way. And it will again, fundamentally change your business. The other way will be when people sell out. So if they sell out to private equity, or they sell out to an individual investor, I think that that’s really valuable, because those people are by nature of the fact that they are investors. They’re people who have been there and done that, and they’ve made many acquisitions, probably before, and they’ll pump money into your business.
They’ll see opportunities that you might have missed. You know, they’ll come with a different, renewed energy, and they will take you on a journey with them. I don’t always recommend that route only because I think it can. I think most entrepreneurs, for 19 7% of entrepreneurs, I think that the reason why they get into business is because they want an element of freedom and flexibility. They want to be their own boss, and to have done that for 1015, even five years, and then achieve the level of success and then put yourself, you know, to work for someone else. I think that’s an it’s really difficult dynamic. And Yeah, honestly, I’ve never actually seen that work. Yeah, yeah. So I think, I think it’s those two ways to do it, but I would always go with, you know, particularly for most entrepreneurs who are just thinking, yeah, how do I evolve? I would always go with the first.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah. I think that’s a really interesting point, and it’s one of the reasons why I’ll often separate founders from entrepreneurs. There’s a few reasons for that, but one of them is, you could have an entrepreneur who’s who wasn’t necessarily there at the start right that they’re an owner of a small, medium enterprise and are very entrepreneurial in nature. They’re they’re just, they’re wired differently than founders, especially the the founders who are successful enough to get out of those early stages and still operate at this stage. They’re very much like you said, like almost none of them are happy working for somebody else. That’s why they started this thing in the first place. But that’s not true of all owners. You know, there are lots of owners that I’ve seen who have inherited the business or bought the business, who don’t mind bringing in other partners. So it’s not all owners, but it’s very much found that founder entrepreneurial drive, I couldn’t agree more in that space. Yeah. So Saul, I’ve got this question before I let you go, and it’s one that has one of my guests. I’m very interested to see what you have to say. But the question is this, what is the biggest secret you wish wasn’t a secret at all? What’s that one thing you wish every founder watching or listening today knew?
Saul Cohen
The valuation on their business. I think that one of the things that really prompted me to leave the big four and you know, I loved doing the work I did there, and it was incredible training, and it was just incredible environment, but one of the things that really prompted me to leave. Was when my dad came to sell his own business, and I just I was in shock over the fact at the time I was in shock. Now I completely understand it, but I was in shock at the fact that no one had told him anything about the process of selling his business. And after your own home, the business is probably the biggest asset that most business owners own, and you know it’s its value is massively material. It makes a massive difference to your life. And you know, if you knew five years before you wanted to exit that you could do three or four things to change the valuation and improve that valuation, you absolutely would have done it, but the fact is that no one told you what the valuation was and what the drivers are that affects that valuation. And what I’ve seen in many, many cases is that entrepreneurs will go on hearsay and what they’ve heard from other people that they’ve exited. And you know, the conditions aren’t always the same, and often I’ve just seen people really, really disappointed with their exit. And I think that’s a massive shame, because entrepreneurs are incredible people. I have utmost respect for them founders as well.
We’re separating two utmost, utmost respect for them and what they do and the work that they put in. And I’m passionately believe that they have the right to exit on fantastic terms and live, you know, their retirement in luxury. And I think it’s a shame when that doesn’t happen because of one or two things that they just didn’t know. And you know, people often say, Well, shouldn’t the accountant know that? Why didn’t their accountant tell them? And the sad truth of it is that most accountants will work on an acquisition, maybe like one or two acquisitions a year. You know, it’s just not something that they do. It’s not their bread and butter. And when you’re doing that 40 maybe a year, 30 or 40 a year, it’s completely different. You see patterns in a different way, and you’re able to explain different things. So that is absolutely, I just, I wish everyone was, you know, empowered with that knowledge. Yeah, maybe that’s an app.
Scott Ritzheimer
So good. So there’s some folks in this mode. They’re trying to figure out what’s going to come next. They want to know how they can get the most. Out of their business and make this shift from shift from operator to investor. Where can they learn more about the work that you do? Where can they connect with you?
Saul Cohen
So LinkedIn is absolutely I’m posting on there all the time. I’ve also, we’ve got a newsletter. I can give you the link to that newsletter goes out quickly, and I am also writing a book due to come out in a couple of months, and we have a waitlist to that as well.
Scott Ritzheimer
Fantastic, fantastic. I love it. We’ll get all those in the show notes for you all. Highly recommend that you check them out. I know I’m excited about the book that’s coming in short order. It’s this quite the process, and I’m in it myself, so I know what you’re going through, at least to some extent. But anyway, Saul, thanks for being on the show. It really was a privilege and honor having you here today. I appreciate your time, and those of you who are watching and listening today, you know that your time and attention mean the world to us. I hope you got as much out of this conversation as I know I did, and I cannot wait to see you next time, take care.
Contact Saul Cohen
Saul Cohen is an experienced accountant and acquisitions advisor with a career spanning PwC and leadership roles at The Expert Eye. He helps established entrepreneurs transition from business operators to investors by providing strategic financial guidance, including tax planning, acquisitions, and business exits. Saul primarily works with business owners earning £1M+ annually, helping them optimize their wealth, plan successful exits, and achieve long-term financial freedom. He combines technical expertise with practical strategies to empower entrepreneurs to build lasting value, reclaim their time, and create a meaningful legacy.
Want to learn more about Saul Cohen’s work at The Expert Eye? Check out his website at https://theexperteye.co.uk/
Connect with Saul through his LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/cohensaul/