In this actionable episode, Shad Tidler, Sales and Leadership/Management at Lushin, Inc., shares how to build repeatable sales systems that scale without founder dependency. If you struggle with inconsistent revenue and every deal requiring your personal involvement in stage 3, you won’t want to miss it.
You will discover:
– What simple scripts and cadences turn average reps into consistent closers fast
– Why founder-led selling creates an invisible ceiling that stalls predictable growth
– How to document and systemize your winning sales process into trainable steps
Episode Transcript
Scott Ritzheimer
Hello, hello and welcome. Welcome once again to the Start scale and succeed podcast. It’s the only podcast that grows with you through all seven stages of your journey. As a founder, I’m your host, Scott Ritzheimer, and here’s what just about nobody warns you about in this process, specifically the sales process that built your business. It actually only works because you’re the one doing it, and the moment that you hired or tried to hire someone else to sell for you, or even with you, it becomes a very, very expensive problem, and this is yet another and probably one of the biggest challenges that turns founders into reluctant managers, because you can’t just hand someone all your instincts and without a repeatable, teachable process, your new hires just winging it, and they’re probably not going to do it the way that you did. There’s a good chance they won’t do it as well as you did, and it leads to all kinds of unpredictability, added cost and a huge amount of frustration. But it doesn’t have to be that way. In fact, today’s guest knows exactly how to fix it. We have with us today, Shad Tidler, who has a has been a seasoned member of the Lucian sales team since 2014 he combines his extensive global expertise with discipline mindset, and he is an Ironman triathlete, which is just extraordinary. We might get into that a little bit later, but as a leading sales transformation consultant, he’s known for crafting scalable strategies and processes tailored to a client’s success. Shad, structured approach instills a sense of calm in clients, guiding them past immediate challenges and toward their goals. Well, Chev, we’ve kind of laid it out here. We know what the gambit is in front of us. Why is it that so many founders get the sales process wrong when they try and hand it off to their first real sales team member?
Shad Tidler
It’s something called learned helpless, or, I’m sorry, not learned helplessness. It’s called non transferable skills, sorry, learned helplessness is a whole different thing that actually adds into it. I’ll explain here a minute, but it’s called non transferable skills. So you’re the owner of a company, right? And you build it, and selling comes natural to you, because you go, I’ve got the charisma. It’s my company. The buck stops with me. I’ve just kind of learned things over time, and then you a lot of times I’ve seen it says, as owners are getting that first sales person, they just expect that they’re that it’s going to happen, right? Like, they’re going to like, oh, that person’s going to know it like me, or I’ll just go, Hey, here’s my here’s my leads, and you just go out and all of a sudden, revenue is going to take off.
And as you alluded to, Scott, it doesn’t. And the problem is is, like, all that knowledge, everything up in their head, all that expertise, even the way they show up, they can’t get it out of their head and translate to someone and then lay it out in a way that that someone can learn it, pick it up, be coached to it, and put it into play. Even if you and I see this a lot of times, when they’re hiring their first salesperson, they may get lucky and find a great salesperson. A lot of times they don’t. And that’s a whole other thing we’re talking about here in a second. Is what do you need to set up for that? A lot of times they don’t, but if they do and they expect, okay, they’re great sales persons coming in, they just expect sales are going to take off, and then all sudden, things dip, or things go backwards because they’ve taken the foot off the gas, and this person is still ramping up, right? If you think of a ramp up of a sales person, well, it’s probably like an effective ramp up is going to be two to three months at least, and then it’s plus the sales cycle for actual sales to start coming in.
So if you’re even in a longer sales cycle, like, let’s say, like construction or something really like that, it may be almost a year or more before you’re really starting to see sales start to pick up with an appropriate onboarding plan, right? So that’s one big thing, is that they struggle because they got all this knowledge in their head, and they think that person is just going to have that same knowledge, and they don’t know how to get it out. And then coach, train, hold people accountable to apply it.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah. So there are two big parts to this, and I’m going to start with what I think most people probably think is the bigger part, but you may argue, as the smaller part, what are you looking for in that first sales person?
Shad Tidler
There are three big areas, and there’s some tools. I’ll mention some tools that are used that can help you suss us out. Number one, is there what we call will to sell. So are they truly motivated go out and sell and even get better? Because even if you get the best salesperson, they’re not perfect, right? That’s a small, small percentage. So are they motivated to get better? Do they have a desire? We call it like a fire in your belly, go out and be proactive, not to wait for leads to come in, not to wait for things to fall in their lap, but to go, I’m gonna go out and hunt. I’m gonna go out and, for lack of better word, screw some stuff up in order to be able to get better and to build things and to get things going. Are they committed to doing what it takes, which means I’m willing to do the tough stuff, I’m willing to screw up and make mistakes, right? So you’re looking for things like that and will to sell, then you’re looking at things like what we call.
DNA for a salesperson that’s beliefs and biases that are supporting them being effective salesperson, not getting in the way. Like, I think of these, like, like this, Scott, it’s like, I live in Indianapolis, here, if I was to drive to downtown Chicago, it would take about three, three and a half hours. Well, what would make it take longer? Well, traffic on the way, construction and, yeah, I mean, especially this time of your weather, right? I’ll still get to my goal again in downtown Chicago, but it took longer, more frustration, more headaches, more effort, and when these beliefs and biases are getting in the way and they’re working opposite you, it’s like that. It’s like all that stuff getting in the way that’s making it harder. So you want somebody that’s got strong DNA and able to have tough conversations when they need to and be able to push back or challenge when they need to hold their ground. Be able to talk money effectively, be able to effectively get people to make decisions quickly, be able to handle rejection right. And then finally, is the actual skill sets right, which is tactical skill sets.
So not only do I have the right tools to be able to be effective. So to get out there and hunt and get in front of new decision makers, the ideal decision makers, and start conversations. But I know how to use them, and I know when to use them. I do it consistently. And then there’s one last piece that they should be looking for, and is that is, is that person coachable? Because I’ve seen all those other three things be really strong with a non coachable or a low coachability person, which means, if you’re helping them, Scott, they’re your person. And you’re like, hey, let’s talk about this. Let’s work on this. I’m gonna coach on this. They’ll say to your face, that sounds great, Scott, I bet that would help. Oh my gosh, that would be great. And they’ll walk away from that conversation going, you don’t understand that’s never going to work, or my way is better. And then you’re frustrated, Peter or manager, going, why the heck are we having this conversation again again? Why don’t they get it? Well, if they’re not coachable, it’s not going to matter. So those are some of the big things that you got to be looking for in people.
Scott Ritzheimer
Those are excellent and simple but but powerful and so, so very true. So we’ve kind of got this people part, at least we know what to look for there. So let’s say we plug the right person into this role. How do we plug them into the right role? How do we structure that for their success?
Shad Tidler
So there’s two parts that. Part number one is you got to have the bird cage ready for the bird. Okay? And here’s what that analogy means. Bird is the salesperson coming in. Bird Cage is the structure and the strategy and the pieces around to support them, to have that comfortable, you know, house there. So what does that mean? Well, that means, do I actually have goals for them? I can’t tell you the number of companies I’ve talked to and worked with, or the first time I’ve helped them hire, I go, what’s the goal for the salesperson? You’re like, I don’t know. Okay, so you have no idea. You just want to come in and sell me. You have no idea, like, how much you want to and, like, what success looks like. We got to have goals. We got to go, Okay, how do we break those goals down now, to the right metrics, the right indicators that we’re looking and then know what we’re what those things are to measure along the way and have appropriate one to one set with them.
Do we know they’re even in their personal goals? What are they going after and why? And then relate it back to, okay, here’s where we need to get you from a sales side or to work on to get you, give you that so you’re motivated. Do you know from there is, do you have a good, strong sales process, right? That’s effective, that you can train somebody you know how to train and coach them to it and use to hold accountable that they’re doing all the right things to qualify opportunities so they’re chasing the right stuff that you want as a leader. Do you have the right ideal client profile and list to help them? Yeah, they gotta go out and hunt, but you gotta help them paint the picture right? Do you have the skills to hold them accountable? Do you have training and development or a way to do that for them, to help them right? So that’s a big piece of it, to find the right now. The second piece is you gotta have some tools to go that, and also part of your onboard or your hiring process to go, Okay, here’s the ideal candidate or job description, here’s the nice to haves versus the must haves that becomes your okay.
Now this is the template, and what we’re going to measure against through that process, and then having some sort of an objective evaluation tool that can tell you, a, are they the right fit for that role and within your company, selling environment? B, going back to I said that will to sell DNA, tactical, coachable is that really there or not? Not. I’m going to rely on my gut. Kind of thinks in an interview, not. I’m going to rely on they wrote a great resume and they talk of the right things, but I’ve got objective data to measure that to go now I know not only the right for my company and our environment, but the right fit for this role.
Scott Ritzheimer
It can be really hard when it comes to the sales process. Piece of that, when it’s working for you, you’re kind of inside the fishbowl, looking around, thinking, this is fine. What are the hallmarks of a good sales process, and how can a founder start to split themselves out of that early in this process so they don’t end up paying for it later?
Shad Tidler
So we have three of the biggest, and then I’m going to talk about the other pieces that. Ancillary to it in the process, and then, and then we’ll talk about how slow out the three biggest things I see most sales process are missing, and that’s why, not only not, not even, is it, you know, Scott, we get a No, right? Or, you know, here’s the reason. But like, no decision gets made, no action gets taken, and that’s where most deals die, is it’s, it’s a lack of them doing anything. Number one is, we’re not talking to the right people. So there’s not a stage in them or milestone in that process that goes this is what the ideal decision maker looks like, and we’ve got to make sure we get to them and have conversations right and whether that’s a single or whether you’re in a complex where it’s multiple people, number two, there’s no compelling reason for them to even take action and make a change. Hey, this sounds great. That would be wonderful to do versus we’re having this problem. It’s impacting us, our business this way. It’s impacting us personally, the decision makers, this way, and we got to do something about it.
Number three, there’s no commitment to change, and there’s no check in the process for it. Just because somebody goes I’ve got a problem. Here’s a reason I would make a change, does not mean they’re committed to changing. I had a conversation earlier this week with a prospect about owner and VP sales. Shared a lot of problems, and things are happening with a particular sales team, but there is not commitment to do anything about it right now. I can’t create that in somebody, neither can you. All you can do is uncover it’s there or not, and then go if it’s not, that’s a reason not to spend time. Doesn’t mean won’t come back later and revisit or they change. But right now, not spend time. Now the other things that go with that process, you got to have somebody get in front of them through various prospecting efforts and a good design for that first conversation to go, get them to go, Yeah, I would spend time to you, with you and have a further conversation.
You got to make sure we differentiate from the competition within that whether competition is doing nothing, competition is somebody they use now, or competition is other people bidding on the work, we’ve got to make sure we have a good budget step in there. So talking investment of dollars, time, effort, and we got to make sure we understand how they make the decision, the process and criteria and timeline were aligned, and then a good here’s how we close to that next step and get a yes or no. That’s what the process should look like. And those three things I started with are the key now for owner, the thing is, is, like a lot of that, getting to decision makers, finding compelling reasons, gain commitment. That’s just natural for them, right? Because their title gets them to the decision makers.
I’m the owner, President, CEO of a company, owner present, CEO a company comes out of the woodwork when I call them, right? Or I’m me, right? They go, you get me. You understand me, because you’re at my level. And so I’ll open up about the good, the bad and the ugly of things going on. They’re they’re like, I only have so much time. So I got to figure out, are you actually committed or not that comes natural to sales, like to owners and present CEOs and sales leaders, who are, you know, owning their company. That’s the stuff that has to be taught and developed and great sales people have, but you have to help them with that, because they don’t walk in with it naturally, like that owner does.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, it’s so true. Shout out before I let you go. I’ve got this question that I love to ask all my guests. I’m gonna ask it of you. And the question is this, what would you say is the biggest secret that you wish was not a secret at all. What’s that one thing you wish everybody watching or listening today knew?
Shad Tidler
And knowing you’re known the group here that you know your audience, Scott, as owners and leaders of companies, your people, aren’t you, your people, aren’t you? It’s so easy. I see so many times I hear something. Well, naturally they’re motivated this way, because that’s how I’m motivated. Naturally they can go out and do these things, like we talked about, having those non transferable skills, the sooner you realize they’re not you and they’re not motivated by things you are. They don’t have your skills and experience. And then do something about it, and get out of the way, the faster the company grows.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s so hard when they’re not you. And you come to that realization, then you’re like, Well, who are they? Because they’re not everybody else either. You know, it’s that. And he gave us just such a great list, and for those listening, and you’re like, well, then who are they? Go back and listen to the points that he made about who makes a great who makes a great salesperson, because that’s exactly what you’re looking for. Shout out. I know there’s folks who’d love more help. They’d love more information. They’d love to know more about the work that you do. Where can they find out more about you and your work?
Shad Tidler
Sure, if go to www dot Lushin, that’s L as in, Larry U S and Sam H and Harry. I N as in nancy .com at the top, you’ll see, meet our coaches. If you click on there, that’ll give you a link to you’ll see my picture and link to my page right there. You can reach out and ask, you know, for get some grab some time with me, etc, learn a little bit more.
Scott Ritzheimer
That’s great. Well, for those listening, if you find yourself even at all in this position, please do reach out to shad. He’s gonna do a ton of good for you, Shad. Thanks for being on the show privilege and honor having you here really, really powerful insights, nice, simple, easy to take action on and thank you for moving us down field. I really appreciate it. Thanks for having for those of you. Yeah, for those of you watching, listening, you know your time and attention mean the world to us. I hope you got as much out of this conversation as I know I did, and I cannot wait to see you next time. Take care.
Contact Shad Tidler
Shad Tidler has been a seasoned member of the Lushin sales team since 2014. He combines his extensive global business expertise with the disciplined mindset of an Ironman triathlete. As a leading sales transformation consultant, he is known for crafting scalable strategies and processes tailored to client success. Shad’s structured approach instills a sense of calm in clients, guiding them past immediate challenges and toward their goals.
Want to learn more about Shad Tidler’s work at Lushin, Inc.? Check out his website at https://www.lushin.com/
Connect with Shad through his LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/shadtidler/