In this game-changing episode, Tyler Wagner, Founder of Authors Unite, shares how to write, publish, and launch a bestselling book to skyrocket your credibility and revenue.
You will discover:
– What referral partnerships scale your business without ads
– How to turn your expertise into a book in under 90 days
– Why bestseller status is achievable today with the right strategy
Episode Transcript
Scott Ritzheimer
Hello, hello and welcome. Welcome once again to the start, scale and succeed podcast, the only podcast that grows with you through all seven stages of your journey as a founder, and I’m your host, Scott Ritzheimer, and I want to talk about something that’s keeping founders stuck in the grind right now, especially those in professional services. But there’s so many folks out there who are working 70 plus hour weeks, and it’s just not moving forward anymore. You know you do great work. You know you’ve got more to offer, but you don’t have the time or energy to do it. You also have a bit of a credibility issue. Those who are close to you know that you’re pretty awesome, but how do you start to expand that out? How do you boost your credibility and open these doors automatically so that you can grow your business in a fraction of the time. Well, it’s it’s sometimes easier said than done, but our guest today has got a really clever way of doing it, and has been doing it really well for a really long time, and he’s here with us today. It’s the one and only Tyler Wagner, who is a book publisher, marker, marketer, entrepreneur, investor, mentor and podcast host, recognized as a Wall Street Journal best selling author. He’s also founder of authors unite, a hybrid publishing company that has helped over 4000 authors publish and market their books, many achieving best seller stat status on major platforms. Tyler also founded partner profits.io where he helps businesses to scale through referral relationships, using the same strategies that built that he used to build authors unite into an eight figure company. He hosts the Tyler Wagner Show, featuring conversations with impactful leaders and entrepreneurs. That’s where I met him. Go check it out. Awesome Show, and you will not you will not be disappointed, but we’re here today. Tyler, welcome to the show. You’ve helped a lot of authors, and you’ve helped a lot of authors hit best selling status. It’s one of the things that has really stood out the most to me as we’ve interacted, and you’ve done it a pretty cool way. But I want to, I want to pull some of that experience out, like, what is it that actually makes a business book work? Because, you know, being in the podcast world, I see a lot of books that I’m certain not a lot of people have read and and having, you know, being in this process myself, it’s a lot of work like to get a return on this. It’s got to be more than the Kevin was it Costner, if you build it, they will come. So walk us through, what is it that you figured out that makes these business books work so well?
Tyler Wagner
Well, thanks for having me on. Man, I would say it’s a few things, and I’ll speak to my own story first, and I won’t go through like the whole entire thing, but I think I’m kind of the best example of the first kind of example of this is I was 19 when I wrote my first book, and that first book became an Amazon bestseller. A later book I wrote became a Wall Street and I would say, like being 19 wanting to be a public speaker at the time, once I was an Amazon bestseller. And I will say again, this was like 15 years ago. But I think the same principles apply is, once you’re a best selling author, obviously, on one of the major lists, Wall Street, USA Today, or NYT, those are, like the elite, but best seller on any list, it just from a branding standpoint. You kind of like, trust is almost assumed, and they like, look past all the other things. And I And what I mean by that is, as a 19 year old that just dropped out of college 80 grand in debt. You know, I had people that were paying me 1000s of dollars at that time to help them, and I was getting paid a few grand to speak on I did about a dozen stages before I switched, like full time over to authors unite. But it was, it was because I was a best selling author. They look past everything else. Didn’t ask me, like, any questions, so I didn’t have to answer about the debt, the age thing kind of disappeared, and it was all because best selling author was next to my name. So to me, that is the number one thing, just the branding of it. And it’s hard to like measure directly the impact of that, but I can just speak for myself and a lot of my clients, like, once you have that tag, if you will, or brand, everything else in your life becomes easier. So I would say, that’s the first thing. The second thing is, I would say, and I kind of got this from Gary Vaynerchuk, is instead of because I see kind of both strategies at play in the market. Is one strategy is, write your book, but don’t give away all the secrets. Like, hold back some of the secrets for the back end of your funnel, consulting courses, etc. But what Gary V says is he’s like, what you really want to do is just give it all away for free, or as like, as much as humanly possible. A book is not technically free, but very low cost. So just give away as much value as you can, and then people will be blown away as they read your book. And then 99% of people, just like with the people that watch your podcast, you know, a lot of them don’t have time to write a book, so a lot of them end up becoming our ghost writing clients, or somebody else in the industry, so somebody interviews them and writes the book. For them, but for them to get to the place to feel comfortable paying 50 grand to 100 grand for ghost writing a book, they have to trust you. So if you have a lot of content out there and you’re giving away all the secrets, the reality is point oh, 1% will actually use those secrets and apply them and do it themselves. And for those people, great, you help them, so that’s awesome. But the other 99% they’re going to want to become your clients, and then that, you know, turns into a higher purchase, way higher than a book purchase. So I think that’s one of the things that just makes a lot of authors stand out, is instead of holding back and making your book be kind of like a minor version of the top of your funnel. Use it as the top of your funnel. Give away a few chapters for free however you want to do it, but put everything you can into the book. Don’t hold back, because it’s just the reality. 99% of people will not do they will not take action on what you’re saying. So you don’t have to worry about like losing clients by giving away all your secrets. And I think that’s the worry that some people have, and that’s why they hold back. So I would say that, and there is a lot of things, but I guess one other thing I would say, just as, like, a kind of trick or tip, if you will, if you can, in like, the best way possible, is this kind of a marketing tactic, but, like, try to cause controversy, but not cause problems for people. What I mean by that is, like, one of our most successful books, the title of it’s called weightlifting is a waste of time, and I don’t take credit for, like, the full success. The author’s name is John Chapuis. She already had a fairly large audience, but we did the Wall Street Journal and USA Today bestseller campaign for him, and since then, he’s sold over 200,000 copies. And from what we’ve seen like after we did the campaign, that there was tons of talk online and like forums, social medias, fitness trainers, personal trainers, kind of like fighting with the people that believe in his stuff. And the reason for that was his. I think it was his really his title, weightlifting is a waste of time. It was kind of taking a jab at the entire fitness industry, and they fought back. So if you can get people, as long as you can handle it, like mentally, some people, like, maybe emotionally, wouldn’t be able to but as long as you can, that tactic is very tried and true, and it works really well. So controversy for the right reasons, I guess would be that answer.
Scott Ritzheimer
I love that. I love it. So let’s go after this. If you build it, they will come thing because, particularly for like coaches and consultants or folks who are very smart or very product sensitive, there’s this idea that if you make something amazing, it’ll do amazing. And that’s just not the game. So tell us a little bit. What does it look like? How much of a book success happens before it’s written and how much of its success happens after it’s written?
Tyler Wagner
Um, so I would say it’s a mix of both. I’ll definitely say, like, build it and they will come in today’s world with all the competition. That’s definitely not going to work. But, and I’ll use, like to me, Alex or Moses, kind of the best example of this, because I just his content. I think it’s kind of an understanding between everybody that’s gone through his content. It’s very good content. So you definitely it’s not all marketing. Marketing, though, is a big part of it. You can’t get anywhere, I think, without marketing, and if you did, it would take very long for word of mouth to actually spread. So to me, it really is kind of 5050, in today’s world, meaning, give everything you got to your product. Don’t view your book as just a business card. It is a business card, but it’s way more than that. And I think if that’s your view when you’re writing it, you could maybe, kind of, I won’t curse, but like, half a it if you know you want to make sure, like, make it so valuable, so that your marketing compounds. I guess is the best way to verbalize this, so that all the marketing you do, let’s say your conversions are super low for whatever reason, as long as that content is really good, even if your conversions are super low with your marketing efforts, the people that did convert word of mouth should eventually take over in time. Whereas, if you only focus on the marketing and make the actual service or product that, in this case, a book, not the best, then word of mouth really has no chance. It’ll die out eventually. And that’s what I tell a lot of my clients, is like the reality is, and this is the truth, I can guarantee, almost, well, not almost, literally any author, short term success, but the only way for the long term success, like that client I just mentioned, John jaquish, with the fitness book, is if the contents actually good, right? So I can get those first, you know, 20, 30,000 sales in a week, hit the New York Times, whatever. But if the contents good, it’s just gonna, you know, fall off a cliff eventually, right? So it has to be both, I think, is really the answer.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, yeah. I love that. And. Yeah, so I want to touch on this, this kind of idea of publishing and formal publishing, hybrid publishing, self publishing. There’s a lot of noise and talk around that. Walk us through, like, Why have you chosen to go a hybrid route as an organization, as a publishing company?
Tyler Wagner
To me, it’s just the best model, and I will actually say too. So we do consider ourselves a hybrid publisher, but we offer both in the sense of, we have some authors that they just pay us, and then we publish it for them, technically service publishing or self publishing, and then we have some other authors, like we did a book with the Dalai Lama. That’s just, it’s kind of like an outlier example. And for that one we did like a hybrid model, where it was a royalty, kind of split. And I would say, I just think it’s the best model when I compare it across, like traditional hybrid self publishing, the only time that you’d really want to go traditional is for two reasons. One, if you’re going for New York Times, because that will dramatically, it’s almost like required. There are a few examples of self published authors like David Goggins, he hit New York Times. So there are some outliers. But ultimately, if you want New York Times, like that’s your main goal, you kind of need a traditional publisher. And then secondly, if you want your book in physical stores, you can do it on the hybrid model. Definitely on the hybrid self published is pretty difficult, but traditional, it’ll get typically widespread in the physical stores. So those are the two reasons. But you do give up a lot of the royalties control. I think normally part ownership of the book, if not full ownership. So there is a lot that you give up. So in my opinion, the hybrid model, it’s kind of that perfect midway point of there are hybrids out there that have Simon and Schuster distribution. So they have very similar to the traditional distribution. And then it’s like a 5050, royalty split. So not as not as bad as a traditional, typically, traditional is like 8020, or 9010, in the favor of the traditional publisher. So you know, you’re literally making 10% of your 300 page or however long it is booked. To me, that just doesn’t feel play, right. So, yeah, to me, hybrids is kind of perfect. You have a good team with your publisher, so it’s you’re not all on your own, like self publishing. And that 5050, feels fair to me for what the publisher is providing and what you’ve provided, and it just seems fair, correct and exactly as it should be, I suppose. And I will say last thing, though, is, and we might get into this, or we might not have, but ultimately, and this will be mostly for your audience too, is you’re not making most of your money from the book royalties. So like when I say the traditional the 8020, or 9010, to me, it just doesn’t feel fair. But the reality is, if, if the if the ROI is the back end, I guess it ultimately doesn’t matter that much, right? Because you’re doing consulting, public speaking courses, whatever, and that’s where you’re actually making your money. So getting that extra distribution in the stores, maybe it ends up playing out that actually you make more money on the back end due to that extra distribution. So it’s just again for me, it just feels funny to give 90% of your book away when you know you spent years probably writing it or a lot of money with a ghost writer. Either way, you put a lot of time and energy, maybe financial energy, whatever, into that project. Yeah, to give away that much is feels strange.
Scott Ritzheimer
One of the one of the things I know from previous conversations that we’ve had, even offline, is that a lot of your success in getting these books across the bestseller line, and achieving that kind of success for your clients came down to a ton of hard work and some pretty clever strategy around referral relationships, and that’s a big part of what you’re doing and your more recent endeavor for for that same person, I think this really matters, because referral relationships are one of those ways that you can kind of kick start that virtuous cycle to get out of the time crunch that you’re in and really scale to the next level. So, you know, we could spend a whole episode on this, but just kind of give us your like biggest point on how we as entrepreneurs should be thinking differently about referrals.
Tyler Wagner
All right, I love this, so I would say my experience with talking with a lot of business owners, because I think we probably have similar audience. Most of my clients are seven to nine figure entrepreneurs. So what I hear a lot of the time is we have a few referral partners. Like when I talk to business owners that like, pretty much, that’s almost 100% of the time we have a few referral partners. They refer, they refer some clients. Each. Year, and it’s, you know, it’s a good deal both ways, essentially, but really, what happened for me, and then I’ll come back to that, is I realized earlier on that a majority of my revenue was coming from a few referral partners. It was a few different book publishers that were referring to me just for the marketing side of their authors, because they didn’t offer that themselves. And once I realized that, I was like, Okay, well, what have I had, instead of, like, five of these? What have I had 100 of them? Or what have I had 10s of 1000s of them? And that’s the path, you know, we took. So I think kind of just the eye opener, or just to become aware of if you do have a few referral partners, and most businesses do just and you’re listening to this, take the time to think like, what would it look like if you 100x that, or whatever, it sounds crazy, but, you know, 1,000x did or something, it’s totally possible to do that. There’s so many people that could be referring to you. And really, the reality is it would, you know, double, triple, whatever the multiple is, it would dramatically grow your business. And it’s really in a super non risky way. There’s nothing like risk about it. There’s no like money you have to pay like Facebook ads or anything. So to me, it’s just for any for no matter where you’re at in business, 678, or whatever. Figures. To me, it just works perfectly if you’re kind of bootstrapping. Amazing. This does not have risk, it does not cost money. Perfect. And then, if you are already eight figures, or whatever, perfect, this could maybe help you get to nine, right? Just build an army of people to help you get more referral partners. So I guess ultimately, the answer that is just become aware of it. I think most people overlook it, because there’s just so much talk in the industry about funnels, Facebook ads and all that stuff is important, and it does work, but I just think the tried and true, like classic, I don’t know, back in the day, method of just like referral partners, has been so overlooked in today’s world. And I’m just glad that I kind of just by looking at the numbers, became aware of it and multiplied it, and now we help other companies with it.
Scott Ritzheimer
So good, so good. Tyler, there’s one more question I’ve got for you, and then we’ll make sure folks know how they can get in touch with you and and learn more about the businesses you represent. But before we get there, here’s the question, what would you say is the biggest secret you wish wasn’t a secret at all. What’s that one thing you wish everybody watching or listening today knew?
Tyler Wagner
Oh, man, that’s a good question. And this goes along with the GaryVee thing. Give away all your secrets. So I will say what I just said would kind of maybe be it, but I won’t repeat myself. So I would just say the second thing would be that the all, pretty much all the best seller lists, because I feel like this is a good secret for everybody to know. All the best seller lists are obtainable, as long as whether it’s you putting in the sweat equity or you paying a company like ours, they are out there for you to get so just know that it’s possible. And I think that is kind of a big secret, because I think most people out there, first of all, they don’t even think they can write a book. They want to, but they don’t feel like they have the ability. I can tell you, with a good editor, you definitely have the ability. You just definitely need a good editor, or at least that was my case. And then secondly, for the best seller lists, for most people, that just seems like a dream, so far away from reality. And the truth is, in today’s world, you know, some are easier than others, the different lists, but becoming a best selling author today is very possible, yeah. So that’s what I would share.
Scott Ritzheimer
Fantastic, fantastic. Tyler, there’s some folks listening that would love help writing or publishing a book, or are interested in the resources you have around referrals and building up referral partners, where can they find more out about you and the work that you do.
Tyler Wagner
For sure. So for the book side, authorsunite.com is the website, and then for the referral partner side, it’s partnerprofits.io and yeah, if you have any questions on the Authors Unite site, there’s like a chat bot in the bottom, a real person responds. But I guess it’s a chat bot or intercom whatever, if you send a question there, we’ll reply to it. So happy to answer any questions.
Scott Ritzheimer
Fantastic, fantastic. We’ll get both those in the show notes. Tyler, thanks for being here. Fun turning these around again. Check out Tyler’s podcast. Tyler, give us the name of the show again, The Tyler Wagner Show. That’s it. Yeah, that’s it. How could I forget? And you’ll find some great episodes over there. I had a chance to listen to a few as I was getting ready for ours, and really enjoyed it and highly recommend it. So Tyler, thanks for being here, really a privilege and honor. Having you here, good to see you again, and for those of you watching listening, you know your time and attention mean the world to us. I hope you got as much out of this episode as I know I did, and I cannot wait to see you next time. Take care.
Contact Tyler Wagner
Tyler Wagner, the founder of Authors Unite, is a book marketing visionary renowned for transforming ambitious authors into bestsellers with nearly unprecedented success. Tyler has helped more than 700 authors achieve Wall Street Journal bestseller status and more than 1,000 authors achieve Amazon bestseller status. His expertise has not only propelled authors to the top of prestigious lists but also catapulted their careers to new heights. Tyler’s services have proven indispensable for authors aiming not just to publish but to succeed and influence profoundly.
Want to learn more about Tyler Wagner’s work at Authors Unite? Check out his website at https://authorsunite.com/
For referral side, check out https://partnerprofits.io/
You can listen to his podcast The Tyler Wagner Show at https://tylerbwagner.com/audio/